I am using Flask and I want to show the user how many visits that he has on his website in realtime.
Currently, I think a way is to, create an infinite loop which has some delay after every iteration and which makes an ajax request getting the current number of visits.
I have also heard about node.js however I think that running another process might make the computer that its running on slower (i'm assuming) ?
How can I achieve the realtime updates on my site? Is there a way to do this with Flask?
Thank you in advance!
Well, there are many possibilites:
1) Polling - this is exactly what you've described. Infinite loop which makes an AJAX request every now and then. Easy to implement, can be easily done with Flask however quite inefficient - eats lots of resources and scales horribly - making it a really bad choice (avoid it at all costs). You will either kill your machine with it or the notification period (polling interval) will have to be so big that it will be a horrible user experience.
2) Long polling - a technique where a client makes an AJAX request but the server responds to that request only when a notification is available. After receiving the notification the client immediately makes a new request. You will require a custom web server for this - I doubt it can be done with Flask. A lot better then polling (many real websites use it) but could've been more efficient. That's why we have now:
3) WebSockets - truely bidirectional communication. Each client maintains an open TCP connection with the server and can react to incoming data. But again: requires a custom server plus only the most modern browsers support it.
4) Other stuff like Flash or Silverlight or other HTTP tricks (chunked encoding): pretty much the same as no 3). Though more difficult to maintain.
So as you can see if you want something more elegant (and efficient) than polling it requires some serious preparation.
As for processes: you should not worry about that. It's not about how many processes you use but how heavy they are. 1 badly written process can easily kill your machine while 100 well written will work smoothly. So make sure it is written in such a way that it won't freeze your machine (and I assure you that it can be done up to some point defined by number of simultaneous users).
As for language: it doesn't matter whether this is Node.js or any other language (like Python). Pick the one you are feeling better with. However I am aware that there's a strong tendency to use Node.js for such projects and thus there might be more proper libraries out there in the internets. Or maybe not. Python has for example Twisted and/or Tornado specially for that (and probably much much more).
Websocket is an event-driven protocol, which means you can actually use it for truly real-time communication.
Kenneth Reitz wrote an extension named Flask-Sockets that is excellent for websockets:
Article: introducing-flask-sockets
Github: flask-sockets
In my opinion, the best option for achieving real time data streaming to a frontend UI is to use a messaging service like pubnub. They have libraries for any language you are going to want to be using. Basically, your user interfaces subscribe to a data channel. Things which create data then publish to that channel, and all subscribers receive the publish very quickly. It is also extremely simple to implement.
You can use PubNub and specifically PubNub presence meant especially for online presence detection. It provides key features like
Track online and offline status of users and devices in realtime
Occupancy to monitor user and machine presence in realtime
Join/Leave Notification for immediate updates of all client connections
Global Scale with synchronized servers across the PubNub Data Stream Network
PubNub Presence Tutorial provides code that can be downloaded to get presence up and running in a few minutes. Five Ways You Can Use PubNub Presence shows you the different ways you can use PubNub presence.
You can get started by signing up for PubNub and getting your API keys.
Related
sorry if this question sounds kinda weird, but I haven't managed to get a satisfying answer yet.
The thing is, I am making( or willing to make ) a web-browser based game where people have their own company, trade, build etc.. And the game will also include bots. Because there will be quite a lot happening, it would be good for the bots to run at all times and react to various situations.
But.. I don't know how to make it happen server-side. Is there a way to make a script run on a server (like VPS)? Or is there a way to make some kind of application that would run on the server and communicate with the database and send answers?
Thank you :)
Of course there is a way to do this server-side - you "just" have to create a server, using any language/framework/platform that enables you to create a proper server application (this could be C++, Java, you could even stay in the JavaScript realm by using Node.js).
You would have to provide some kind of communication channel between web clients and your server. For that, you could use either Websockets (TCP) or WebRTC (UDP), simple AJAX could be an option too, but I wouldn't recommend it for persistent communication channel.
I've read a few StackOverflow posts related to this subject but I can't find anything specifically helps me in my scenario.
We have multiple monitoring instances within our network, monitoring different environments (Nagios, Icinga, more...). Currently I have a poller script written in PHP which runs every minute via cron, it asks the instance to return all of its problems in JSON, the script then interprets this and pushes it in to a MySQL database.
There is then an 'overview' page which simply reads the database and does some formatting. There's a bit of AJAX involved, every X seconds (currently use 30) it checks for changes (PHP script call) and if there are changes it requests them via AJAX and updates the page.
There's a few other little bits too (click a problem, another AJAX request goes off to fetch problem details to display in a modal etc).
I've always been a PHP/MySQL dev, so the above methodology seemed logical to me and was quick/easy to write, and it works 'ok'. However, the problems are: database constantly being polled by many users, mesh of javascript on the front end doing half the logic and PHP on the back doing the other half.
Would this use case benefit from switching to NodeJS? I've done a bit of Node.JS before but nothing like this. Can I subscribe to MySQL updates? Or trigger them when a 'data fetcher' pushes data in to the database? I've always been a bit confused as I use PHP to create data and javascript to 'draw' the page, is there still a split of NodeJS doing logic and front end javascript creating all the elements, or does NodeJS do all of this now? Sorry for the lack of knowledge in this area...
This is definitely an area where Node could offer improvements.
The short version: with websockets in the front-end and regular sockets or an API on the back-end you can eliminate the polling for new data across the board.
The long version:
Front-end:
You can remove all need for polling scripts by implementing websockets. That way, as soon as new data arrives on the server, you can broadcast it to all connected clients. I would advise Socket.io or the Primus websocket wrapper. Both are very easy to implement and incredibly powerful for what you want to achieve.
All data processing logic should happen on the server. The data is then sent to the client and should be rendered on the existing page, and that is basically the only logic the client should contain. There are some frameworks that do all of this for you (e.g. Sails) but I don't have experience with any of those frameworks, since they require you to write your entire app according to their rules, which I personally don't like (but I know a lot of developers do).
If you want to render the data in the client without a huge framework, I highly recommend the lightweight but incredibly useful Transparency rendering library. Using this, you can format a Javascript object on the server using Node, JSONify it, send it to the client, and then all the client would have to do is de-JSONify it and call Transparency's .render.
Back-end:
This one depends on how much control you have over the behaviour of the instances you need to check. I assume you have some control, since you can get all their data in a nice JSON format. So, there are multiple options.
You can keep polling every so often. This is the easiest solution since it requires no change to the external services. The Javascript setInterval function is very useful here. Depending on how you connect with the instances, you might be able to use a module like Request to do the actual request, so that takes out a bunch more of the heavy lifting.
The benefit of implementing the polling in your Node app as well, is that you will receive the data in your Node app and that way you can immediately broadcast it to the clients, even before inserting it into a database. This will greatly reduce the number of queries on your database.
An alternative to polling would be to set up a simple Express-based API where the applications can post their 'problems', as you call them. This way your application will get notified the moment a problem occurs, and combined with the websockets connection to the client this would result in practically real-time updates.
To be more redundant, you would have a polling timer alongside the API, so that you can check the instances in case there's something wrong that causes them to not send over any more data.
An alternative to the more high-level API would be to just use direct socket communication, which is basically the same approach only using a different set of functions.
Lastly, you could also keep the PHP-based polling script. This would be the most efficient solution since you wouldn't go and replace everything. Then from the Node app that's connected to the clients with websockets, you could set an interval to query the database every so often and broadcast the updates. This will still greatly reduce the number of queries, since no matter how many clients are connected there will only be one query, the response of which then gets sent to all connected clients.
I hope my post has give you some ideas of how you could implement your application using Node. Keep in mind though that I am just one developer, this is how I would approach building your application in Node. There will definitely be others who have different opinions.
I'm building a web app for 'brainstorming.' Here's how it works: essentially, a user can come onto the app, and submit a challenge, or click on one that's already there, then think up ideas to resolve that challenge and post them up. I hacked together a basic example here on couchdb: http://wamoyo.iriscouch.com/ideageneration/_design/IdeaGeneration/attachments%2findex.html
I'm going to rebuild it from scratch and all, and I'm hitting up against a challenge that's very unfamiliar to me. I'd like for multiple users to be able to generate ideas for the same challenge at the same time. Kinda like the way google docs allows multiple people to edit a shared document. I have some preliminary thoughts on how to go about this, but I thought I'd ask the expert network here.
I'm fairly comfortable with AJAX, is there a pure AJAX way to make it live and multiuser? Would there be an enormous benefit to going with node.js? What might be some other options?
Thanks soo much!
There are several approaches in making such web pages, using plain ajax polling, using long polling and using web sockets.
Ajax polling - easy to implement, essentially connecting to server recurrently via javascript timer, retrieve data from server and send it back via regular Ajax.
Advantages: easy to implement, works everywhere
Disadvantages: the updates are not in real-time, the data is exchanged only when the timer ticks.
Long polling - the idea is that the connection stays open until it times out, then the connection is reestablished. Can be tricky to implement because of different settings for request timeouts for different web servers, routers, etc.
Web sockets - part of HTML5 umbrella, works only in fairly modern browsers, the protocol changes often which may cause incompatibilities during development and production. Can be used natively with modern browsers and via a Flash plugin with older ones. This technology is most lightweight, because it doesn't incur all the HTTP overhead. Think of it as bi-directional, full-duplex communication channel between a browser and a web server via TCP.
For a detailed discussion, I recommend reading this good post by Scott Hanselman. It tells the story about SignalR, but is applicable to other server-side frameworks.
There is also a podcast by same author, the guest goes fairly deeply into explaining these technologies. Worth listening, IMO.
To answer your question about node.js, please share us your current server technology, so we could get more insight into your stack.
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I have an application whose primary function works in real time, through websockets or long polling.
However, most of the site is written in a RESTful fashion, which is nice for application s and other clients in the future. However, I'm thinking about transitioning to a websocket API for all site functions, away from REST. That would make it easier for me to integrate real time features into all parts of the site. Would this make it more difficult to build applications or mobile clients?
I found that some people are already doing stuff like this: SocketStream
Not to say that the other answers here don't have merit, they make some good points. But I'm going to go against the general consensus and agree with you that moving to websockets for more than just realtime features is very appealing.
I am seriously considering moving my app from a RESTful architecture to more of an RPC style via websockets. This is not a "toy app", and I'm not talking about only realtime features, so I do have reservations. But I see many benefits in going this route and feel it could turn out to be an exceptional solution.
My plan is to use DNode, SocketIO, and Backbone. With these tools, my Backbone models and collections can be passed around from/to client and server by simply calling a functions RPC-style. No more managing REST endpoints, serializing/deserializing objects, and so forth. I haven't worked with socketstream yet, but it looks worth checking out.
I still have a long way to go before I can definitively say this is a good solution, and I'm sure it isn't the best solution for every application, but I'm convinced that this combination would be exceptionally powerful. I admit that there are some drawbacks, such as losing the ability to cache resources. But I have a feeling the advantages will outweigh them.
I'd be interested in following your progress exploring this type of solution. If you have any github experiments, please point me at them. I don't have any yet, but hope to soon.
Below is a list of to-read-later links that I've been collecting. I can't vouch that they are all worthwhile, as I've only skimmed many of them. But hopefully some will help.
Great tutorial on using Socket.IO with Express. It exposes express sessions to socket.io and discusses how to have different rooms for each authenticated user.
http://www.danielbaulig.de/socket-ioexpress/
Tutorial on node.js/socket.io/backbone.js/express/connect/jade/redis with authentication, Joyent hosting, etc:
http://fzysqr.com/2011/02/28/nodechat-js-using-node-js-backbone-js-socket-io-and-redis-to-make-a-real-time-chat-app/
http://fzysqr.com/2011/03/27/nodechat-js-continued-authentication-profiles-ponies-and-a-meaner-socket-io/
Tutorial on using Pusher with Backbone.js (using Rails):
http://blog.pusher.com/2011/6/21/backbone-js-now-realtime-with-pusher
Build application with backbone.js on the client and node.js with express, socket.io, dnode on the server.
http://andyet.net/blog/2011/feb/15/re-using-backbonejs-models-on-the-server-with-node/
http://addyosmani.com/blog/building-spas-jquerys-best-friends/
http://fzysqr.com/2011/02/28/nodechat-js-using-node-js-backbone-js-socket-io-and-redis-to-make-a-real-time-chat-app/
http://fzysqr.com/2011/03/27/nodechat-js-continued-authentication-profiles-ponies-and-a-meaner-socket-io/
Using Backbone with DNode:
http://quickleft.com/blog/backbone-without-ajax-part-ii
http://quickleft.com/blog/backbone-without-ajax-part-1
http://sorensen.posterous.com/introducing-backbone-redis
https://github.com/cowboyrushforth/minespotter
http://amir.unoc.net/how-to-share-backbonejs-models-with-nodejs
http://hackerne.ws/item?id=2222935
http://substack.net/posts/24ab8c
HTTP REST and WebSockets are very different. HTTP is stateless, so the web server doesn't need to know anything, and you get caching in the web browser and in proxies. If you use WebSockets, your server is becoming stateful and you need to have a connection to the client on the server.
Request-Reply communication vs Push
Use WebSockets only if you need to PUSH data from the server to the client, that communication pattern is not included in HTTP (only by workarounds). PUSH is helpful if events created by other clients needs to be available to other connected clients e.g. in games where users should act on other clients behaviour. Or if your website is monitoring something, where the server pushes data to the client all the time e.g. stock markets (live).
If you don't need to PUSH data from the server, it's usually easier to use a stateless HTTP REST server. HTTP uses a simple Request-Reply communication pattern.
I'm thinking about transitioning to a WebSocket api for all site functions
No. You should not do it. There is no harm if you support both models. Use REST for one way communication/simple requests & WebSocket for two way communication especially when server want to send real time notification.
WebSocket is a more efficient protocol than RESTful HTTP but still RESTful HTTP scores over WebSocket in below areas.
Create/Update/Delete resources have been defined well for HTTP. You have to implement these operations at low level for WebSockets.
WebSocket connections scale vertically on a single server where as HTTP connections scale horizontally. There are some proprietary non standards-based solutions for WebSocket horizontal scaling .
HTTP comes with a lot of good features such as caching, routing, multiplexing, gzipping etc. These have to built on top of Websocket if you chose Websocket.
Search engine optimizations works well for HTTP URLs.
All Proxy, DNS, firewalls are not yet fully aware of WebSocket traffic. They allow port 80 but might restrict traffic by snooping on it first.
Security with WebSocket is all-or-nothing approach.
Have a look at this article for more details.
The only problem I can using TCP (WebSockets) as your main web content delivery strategy is that there is very little reading material out there about how to design your website architecture and infrastructure using TCP.
So you can't learn from other people's mistakes and development is going to be slower. It's also not a "tried and tested" strategy.
Of course your also going to lose all the advantages of HTTP (Being stateless, and caching are the bigger advantages).
Remember that HTTP is an abstraction for TCP designed for serving web content.
And let's not forget that SEO and search engines don't do websockets. So you can forget about SEO.
Personally I would recommend against this as there's too much risk.
Don't use WS for serving websites, use it for serving web applications
However if you have a toy or a personal websites by all means go for it. Try it, be cutting-edge. For a business or company you cannot justify the risk of doing this.
I learned a little lesson (the hard way). I made a number crunching application that runs on Ubuntu AWS EC2 cloud services (uses powerful GPUs), and I wanted to make a front-end for it just to watch its progress in realtime. Due to the fact that it needed realtime data, it was obvious that I needed websockets to push the updates.
It started with a proof of concept, and worked great. But then when we wanted to make it available to the public, we had to add user session, so we needed login features. And no matter how you look at it, the websocket has to know which user it deals with, so we took the shortcut of using the websockets to authenticate the users. It seemed obvious, and it was convenient.
We actually had to spend quiet some time to make the connections reliable. We started out with some cheap websocket tutorials, but discovered that our implementation was not able to automatically reconnect when the connection was broken. That all improved when we switched to socket-io. Socket-io is a must !
Having said all that, to be honest, I think we missed out on some great socket-io features. Socket-io has a lot more to offer, and I am sure, if you take it in account in your initial design, you can get more out of it. In contrast, we just replaced the old websockets with the websocket functionality of socket-io, and that was it. (no rooms, no channels, ...) A redesign could have made everything more powerful. But we didn't have time for that. That's something to remember for our next project.
Next we started to store more and more data (user history, invoices, transactions, ...). We stored all of it in an AWS dynamodb database, and AGAIN, we used socket-io to communicate the CRUD operations from the front-end to the backend. I think we took a wrong turn there. It was a mistake.
Because shortly after we found out that Amazon's cloud services (AWS) offer some great load-balancing/scaling tools for RESTful applications.
We have the impression now that we need to write a lot of code to perform the handshakes of the CRUD operations.
Recently we implemented Paypal integration. We managed to get it to work. But again, all tutorials are doing it with RESTful APIs. We had to rewrite/rethink their examples to implement them with websockets. We got it to work fairly fast though. But it does feel like we are going against the flow.
Having said all that, we are going live next week. We got there in time, everything works. And it's fast, but will it scale ?
I would consider using both. Each technology has their merit and there is no one-size fits all solution.
The separation of work goes this way:
WebSockets would be the primary method of an application to communicate with the server where a session is required. This eliminates many hacks that are needed for the older browsers (the problem is support for the older browsers which will eliminate this)
RESTful API is used for GET calls that are not session oriented (i.e. not authentication needed) that benefit from browser caching. A good example of this would be reference data for drop downs used by a web application. However. can change a bit more often than...
HTML and Javascript. These comprise the UI of the webapp. These would generally benefit being placed on a CDN.
Web Services using WSDL are still the best way of enterprise level and cross-enterprise communication as it provides a well defined standard for message and data passing. Primarily you'd offload this to a Datapower device to proxy to your web service handler.
All of this happen on the HTTP protocol which gives use secure sockets via SSL already.
For the mobile application though, websockets cannot reconnect back to a disconnected session (How to reconnect to websocket after close connection) and managing that isn't trivial. So for mobile apps, I would still recommend REST API and polling.
Another thing to watch out for when using WebSockets vs REST is scalability. WebSocket sessions are still managed by the server. RESTful API when done properly are stateless (which mean there is no server state that needs to be managed), thus scalability can grow horizontally (which is cheaper) than vertically.
Do I want updates from the server?
Yes: Socket.io
No: REST
The downsides to Socket.io are:
Scalability: WebSockets require open connections and a much different Ops setup to web scale.
Learnin: I don't have unlimited time for my learnin. Things have to get done!
I'll still use Socket.io in my project, but not for basic web forms that REST will do nicely.
WebSockets (or long polling) based transports mostly serve for (near) real-time communication between the server and client. Although there are numerous scenarios where these kinds of transports are required, such as chat or some kind of real-time feeds or other stuff, not all parts of some web application need to be necessarily connected bidirectionally with the server.
REST is resource based architecture which is well understood and offers it's own benefits over other architectures. WebSockets incline more to streams/feeds of data in real-time which would require you to create some kind of server based logic in order to prioritize or differentiate between resources and feeds (in case you don't want to use REST).
I assume that eventually there would be more WebSockets centric frameworks like socketstream in the future when this transport would be more widespread and better understood/documented in the form of data type/form agnostic delivery. However, I think, this doesn't mean that it would/should replace the REST just because it offers functionality which isn't necessarily required in numerous use cases and scenarios.
I'd like to point out this blog post that is up to me, the best answer to this question.
In short, YES
The post contains all the best practices for such kind of API.
That's not a good idea. The standard isn't even finalized yet, support varies across browsers, etc. If you want to do this now you'll end up needing to fallback to flash or long polling, etc. In the future it probably still won't make a lot of sense, since the server has to support leaving connections open to every single user. Most web servers are designed instead to excel at quickly responding to requests and closing them as quickly as possibly. Heck even your operating system would have to be tuned to deal with a high number of simultaneous connections (each connection using up more ephemeral ports and memory). Stick to using REST for as much of the site as you can.
I am working on a simple notification service that will be used to deliver messages to the users surfing a website. The notifications do not have to be sent in real time but it might be a better user experience if they happened more frequently than say every 5 minutes. The data being sent to and from the client is not very large and it is a straight forward database query to retrieve the data.
In reading other conversations on the topic it would appear that an AJAX push can result in higher server loads. Since I can tolerate longer server delays is it worth while to have the server push notifications or to simply poll.
It is not much harder to implement the push scenario and so I thought I would see what the opinion was here.
Thanks for your help.
EDIT:
I have looked into a simple AJAX Push and implemented a simple demo based on this article by Mike Purvis.
The client load is fairly low at around 5k for the initial version and expected to stay that way for quite some time.
Thank you everyone for your responses. I have decided to go with the polling solution but to wrap it all within a utility library so that if they want to change it later it is easier.
I'm surprised noone here has mentioned long-polling. Long polling means keeping an open connection for a longer period (say 30-60 seconds), and once it's closed, re-opening it again, and simply having the socket/connection listen for responses. This results in less connections (but longer ones), and means that responses are almost immediate (some may have to wait for a new polling connection). I'd like to add that in combination with technologies like NodeJS, this results in a very efficient, and resource-light solution, that is 100% browser compatible across all major browsers and versions, and does not require any additional tech like Comet or Flash.
I realize this is an old question, but thought it might still be useful to provide this information :)
Definitely use push its much cooler. If you just want simple notifications I would use something like StreamHub Push Server to do the heavy-lifting for you. Developing your own Ajax Push functionality is an extremely tricky and rocky road - you have to get it working in all browsers and then handle firewalls and proxies killing keep-alive connections etc... Why re-invent the wheel. Also, it has a similarly low footprint of less than 10K so it should suit if that is a priority for you.
Both have diferent requirements and address diferent scenarios.
If you need realtime updates, like in an online chat, push is a must.
But, if the refresh period is big, as it is in your case (5 minutes), then pool is the appropriate solution. Push, in this case, will require a lot of resource from both the client and the server.
Tip! try to make the page that checks the pool fast and clean, so it doesn't consumes a lot of resources in the server in each request. What I usually do is to keep a flag in memory (like in a session variable) that says if the pool is empty or not... so, I only do havy look in the pool only if it is not empty. When the pool is empty, which is most of the time, the page request runs extremely fast.
Because using a push requires an open HTTP connection to be maintained between your server and each client, I'd go for poll as well - not only is that going to consume a lot of server resources but it's also going to be significantly more tricky to implement as matt b mentioned.
My experience with polling is that if you have a frequent enough polling interval on a busy enough site your web server logs can get flooded with poll requests real quickly.
Edit (2017): I'd say your choices are now are between websockets and long polling (mentioned in another answer). Sounds like long polling might be the right choice based on the way the question mentions that the notifications don't need to be received in real time, an infrequent polling period would be pretty easy to implement and shouldn't be very taxing on your server. Websockets are cool and a great choice for many applications these days, sounds like that might be overkill in this case though.
I would implement a poll just because it sounds simpler to write, and keeping it simple is very valuable.
Not sure if you have taken a look at some of the COMET implementations out there (is that what you mean by AJAX push).
If the user is surfing the site, won't that in effect be requesting information from the server that this notification can piggy-back on?
It's impossible to say whether polling will be more expensive then pushing without knowing how many clients you'll have. I'd recommend polling because:
It sounds like you want to update data about once per minute. Unless notifications are able to arrive at a much faster rate than that, pushing would mean you're keeping an HTTP connection open but seeing very little activity on it.
Polling is built on top of existing HTTP conventions, so any server that talks to web browsers is already ready to respond to ordinary Ajax requests. A Comet– or Flash socket–based solution has different requirements; you'll need something like cometd on the server side and a client-side library that groks server-side push.
So if you needed something heavy-duty to manage a torrent of data and a crapload of clients, I'd recommend Comet. But that doesn't seem to be the case.
There's now a service http://pusherapp.com that is trying to solve this problem once and for all, in a blink. Might be worth checking out. (disclaimer: i am in no way associated with them).
I haven't tried it myself, but some say COMET works and is easier than you think. There's also a Ruby on Rails plug-in called Juggernaut that I've heard talked about highly. Again, I haven't used it, so YMMV, but my understanding is that it takes far fewer resources compared to polling. I believe (can someone confirm?) that COMET is how MacRumorsLive.com delivers live blogging of WWDC Stevenotes.