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When I discovered that Node.js was built using the V8 JavaScript engine, I thought:
Great, web scraping will be easier as the page
will be rendered like in the browser, with a
"native" DOM supporting XPath and any AJAX calls on
the page executed.
Why doesn't it have a native DOM when it uses the same JavaScript engine as Chrome?
Why doesn't it have a mode to run JavaScript in retrieved pages?
What am I not understanding about JavaScript engines vs the engine in a web browser?
Many thanks!
The DOM is the DOM, and the JavaScript implementation is simply a separate entity. The DOM represents a set of facilities that a web browser exposes to the JavaScript environment. There's no requirement however that any particular JavaScript runtime will have any facilities exposed via the global object.
What Node.js is is a stand-alone JavaScript environment completely independent of a web browser. There's no intrinsic link between web browsers and JavaScript; the DOM is not part of the JavaScript language or specification or anything.
I use the old Rhino Java-based JavaScript implementation in my Java-based web server. That environment also has nothing at all to do with any DOM. It's my own application that's responsible for populating the global object with facilities to do what I need it to be able to do, and it's not a DOM.
Note that there are projects like jsdom if you want a virtual DOM in your Node project. Because of its very nature as a server-side platform, a DOM is a facility that Node can do without and still make perfect sense for a wide variety of server applications. That's not to say that a DOM might not be useful to some people, but it's just not in the same category of services as things like process control, I/O, networking, database interop, and so on.
There may be some "official" answer to the question "why?" out there, but it's basically just the business of those who maintain Node (the Node Foundation now). If some intrepid developer out there decides that Node should ship by default with a set of modules to support a virtual DOM, and successfully works and works and makes that happen, then Node will have a DOM.
P.S: When reading this question I was also wondering if V8 (node.js is built on top of this) had a DOM
Why when it uses the same JS engine as Chrome doesn't it have a native
DOM?
But I searched google and found Google's V8 page which recites the following:
JavaScript is most commonly used for client-side scripting in a
browser, being used to manipulate Document Object Model (DOM) objects
for example. The DOM is not, however, typically provided by the
JavaScript engine but instead by a browser. The same is true of
V8—Google Chrome provides the DOM. V8 does however provide all the
data types, operators, objects and functions specified in the ECMA
standard.
node.js uses V8 and not Google Chrome.
Likewise, why doesn't it have a mode to run JS in retrieved pages?
I also think we don't really need it that bad. Ryan Dahl created node.js as one man (single programmer). Maybe now he (his team) will develop this, but I was already extremely amazed by the amount of code he produced (crazy). He wanted to make a non-blocking easy/efficient library, which I think he did a mighty good job at.
But then again, another developer created a module which is pretty good and actively developed (today) at https://github.com/tmpvar/jsdom.
What am I not understanding about Javascript engines vs the engine in
a web browser? :)
Those are different things as is hopefully clear from the quote above.
The Document Object Model (DOM in short) is a programming interface for HTML and XML documents and it represents the page so that programs can change the document structure, style, and content. More on this subject.
The necessary distinction between client-side (browser) and server-side (Node.js) and their main goals:
Client-side: accessing and displaying information of the web
Server-side: providing stable and reliable ways to deliver web information
Why is there no DOM in Node.js be default?
By default, Node.js doesn't have access, nor have any knowledge about the actual DOM in your own browser. Node.js just delivers the data, that will be used by your own browser to process and render the whole website, the DOM included. The server provides the data to your browser to use and process. That is the intended way.
Why wouldn't you want to access the DOM in Node.js?
Accessing your browser's actual DOM using Node.js would be just simply out of the goal of the server. Your own browser's role is to display the data coming from the server. However it is certainly possible and there are multiple solutions in different level of depths and varieties to pre-render, manipulate or change the DOM using AJAX calls. We'll see what future trends will bring.
Why would you want to access the DOM in Node.js?
By default, you shouldn't access your own, actual DOM (at least some data of it) using Node.js. Client-side and server-side are separated in terms of role, functionality, and responsibility based on years of experience and knowledge. Although there are several situations, where there are solid reasons to do so:
Gathering usage data (A/B testing, UI/UX efficiency and feedback)
Headless testing (Development, automation, web-scraping)
How can you access the DOM in Node.js?
jsdom: pure-JavaScript implementation, good for testing your own DOM/browser-related project
cheerio: great solution if you like/often use jQuery
puppeteer: Google's own way to provide headless testing using Google Chrome
own solution (your possible future project link here)
Although these solutions do not provide a way to access your browser's own, actual DOM by default, but you can create a project to send some form of data about your DOM to the server, then use/render/manipulate that data based on your needs.
...and yes, web-scraping and web development in terms of tools and utilities became more sophisticated and certainly easier in several fields.
node.js chose not to include it in their standard library. For any functionality, there is an inevitable tradeoff between comprehensiveness, scalability, and maintainability.
That doesn't mean it's not potentially useful. There is at least one JavaScript DOM implementation intended for NodeJS (among other CommonJS implementations).
You seem to have a flawed assumption that V8 and the DOM are inextricably related, that's not the case. The DOM is actually handled by Webkit, V8 doesn't handle the DOM, it handles Javascript calls to the DOM. Don't let this discourage you, Node.js has carved out a significant niche in the realtime server market, but don't let anybody tell you it's just for servers. Node makes it possible to build almost anything with JavaScript.
It is possible to do what you're talking about. For example there is the very good jsdom library if you really need access to the DOM, and node-htmlparser, there are also some really good scraping libraries that take advantage of these like apricot.
2018 answer: mainly for historical reasons, but this may change in future.
Historically, very little DOM manipulation was done on the server. Addiotinally, as other answers allude, the JS stdlib and the DOM are seperate libraries - if you're using node, for, say, Unix scripting, then HTMLElement and NodeList etc aren't really relevant to that.
However: server-side DOM manipulation is now a very common part of delivering web apps. Web servers need to understand the structure of pages, and, if asked to render a resource as HTML, deliver HTML content that reflects the initial state of a web application. This means web apps load much faster than if the server simply delivers a stub page and has the browsers then do the work of filling in the real content. Currently this is done with JSDom and similar, but in the same way node has Request and Response objects built in, having DOM functions maintained as part of the stdlib would help with this task.
Javascript != browser. Javascript as a language is not tied to browsers; node.js is simply an implementation of Javascript that is intended for servers, not browsers. Hence no DOM.
If you read DOM as 'linked objects immediately accessible from my script' then the answer 'it does, but it's very different from set of objects available from web document script'. The main reason is that node is 'evented I/O for V8', not 'HTML tree objects for V8'
Node is a runtime environment, it does not render a DOM like a browser.
Because there isn't a DOM. DOM stands for Document Object Model. There is no document in Node, so not DOM to manipulate it. That is definitively a browser thing.
You can use a library like cheerio though which gives you some simple DOM manipulation.
Node is server-level JavaScript. It's just the language applied to a basic system API, more like C++ or Java.
It seems people have answered 'why' but not how. A quick answer of how is that in a web browser, a document object is exposed (hence DOM , document object model). On windows this object is called document object. You can refer to this page and look at the methods it exposes which are for handling HTML documents like createElement. I don't use node.js or haven't done COM programming in a while but I'd imagine you could use DOM in node.js by simply calling the COM object IHTMLDocument3. Of course for other platforms like Mac OS X or Linux you would probably have to use something from their OS api. This should allow you to easily build a webpage server side using DOM, or to scrape incoming web pages.
Node.js is for serverside programming. There is no DOM to be rendered in the server.
1) What does it mean for it to have a D ocument O bject M odel? There's no document to represent.
2) You're most of the time you're not retrieving pages. You can, but most Node apps probably won't be.
3) Without a document and a browser, Javascript is just another programming language. So you may ask why there isn't a DOM in C# or Java
Good afternoon!
We're looking to get a javascript variable from a webpage, that we are usually able to retrieve typing app in the Chrome DevTools.
However, we're looking to realize this headlessly as it has to be performed on numerous apps.
Our ideas :
Using a Puppeteer instance to go on the page, type the command and return the variable, which works, but it's very ressource consuming.
Using a GET/POST request to the page trying to inject the JS command, but we didn't succeed.
We're then wondering if there will be an easier solution, as a special API that could extract the variable?
The goal would be to automate this process with no human interaction.
Thanks for your help!
Your question is not so much about a JS API (since the webpage is not yours to edit, you can only request it) as it is about webcrawling / browser automation.
You have to add details to get a definitive answer, but I see two scenarios:
the website actively checks for evidence of human browsing (for example, it sits behind CloudFlare and has requested this option); or the scripts depend heavily on there being a browser execution environment available. In this case, the simplest option is to automate a browser, because a headless option has to get many things right to fool the server or the scripts. I would use karate, which is easier than, say, selenium and can execute in-browser scripts. It is written in Java, but you can execute it externally and just read its reports.
the website does not check for such evidence and the scripts do not really require a browser execution environment. Then you can simply download everything requires locally and attempt to jury-rig the JS into executing in any JS environment. According to your post, this fails; but it is impossible to help unless you can describe how it fails. This option can be headless.
You can embed Chrome into your application and instrument it. It will be headless.
We've used this approach in the past to copy content from PowerPoint Online.
We were using .NET to do this and therefore used CEFSharp.
I've been reading articles online about what universal javascript is but I'm still not comfortable with the definitions each site is giving which is, "code that can run on the client and server." Does this mean that a node.js app is inherently universal javascript because it will have javascript running in the client side and server side. Or does universal javascript have to do with server side rendering then client side rendering?
Preface: I cannot find any highly-authoritative (e.g. ECMA, Microsoft, Mozilla or Google) source that provides a strict definition of "universal JavaScript" or "isomorphic JavaScript" - at most I've found a few blog posts (albeit by influential personalities) however I can see why a newcomer might be confused.
It seems there are two definitions going around which are similar, but with crucial differences:
1. To refer to JavaScript which runs anywhere
This definition refers to JavaScript which does not take a dependency on any specific client-side or server-side API, instead they only make use of features present in JavaScript's built-in library (String, Array, Date, function, Math etc) or on other libraries that also similarly restrict their dependencies (a transitive relation).
Remember that "JavaScript" does not mean that the DOM API, AJAX, HTML5 <canvas> (and so on) are available - it just means the JavaScript scripting language is being used - that's it. JavaScript has been available outside of web-browsers for over 20 years now (Windows support JavaScript as a shell-scripting language in cscript.exe/wscript.exe and ASP 3.0 supported server-side JScript as an alternative to VBScript - and the .NET Framework has "JScript.NET" too).
So in this case, if you wrote a library that adds some useful string functions, which only references String, then that script would work without issue in a Node.js server environment or an in-browser environment.
But if your script ever used the window object (only present in browsers) or express (a library only for Node) then it loses "universal" status because it cannot "run everywhere".
2. To refer to JavaScript which renders the same HTML whether on the server or on the client
e.g. http://isomorphic.net/
This definition is actually a strict subset of the first definition: as the same script must (by definition) run inside both a server/Node.js context, but also a browser DOM context - and when it runs it generates content (typically HTML) that is then displayed in the user's browser (and by doing this it must take a dependency on both a Node API and the W3C DOM - so then it cannot strictly run "anywhere" because neither are available in a cscript.exe environment, for example.
Note: There is debate if use of XMLHttpRequest or fetch makes a script universal or not - as their presence is not guaranteed (as technically they're part of the DOM, not JavaScript's built-in library).
In this 2015 blog post ( https://medium.com/#ghengeveld/isomorphism-vs-universal-javascript-4b47fb481beb ) the author argues that only the term "isomorphic JavaScript" should be used to refer to rendering code that runs in both browser and server environments, while "universal JavaScript" should refer to truly portable, environment-agnostic, JavaScript (i.e. my first definition).
Nowadays Single Page Applications have become very popular but they have problems, SEO, for example.
So, how does an SPA work? JavaScript loads in the browser and loads data from an API. Most of the rendering is done on the client Side. But search engine bots have a hard time indexing the page because it doesn't have much without JS.
Now, Universal/Isomorphic App comes to the rescue. At the initial page load, the original page renders on the server. After that, the app works like an SPA. It's got better SEO because when a search engine bot asks for a page, the server returns the whole rendered HTML page, with content and meta tags.
Edit
An isomorphic app can be done with JavaScript (Node.js), PHP or some other language, but if that app written with Node.js, then we can call it universal as both the backend and frontend are in JavaScript.
I'll try to explain it with examples, even if other answers seem already accurate.
A basic example
Imagine you develop a SPA that render an Hello World message. This means that your browser loads an HTML file with a <script> tag (or the reference to a JS file) that actually makes this happen. You can prove that "Hello world" is generated by JavaScript in the client browser, because if you deactivate JavaScript you won't see any message.
Now isolate the code that prints the string "Hello World", it doesn't need much to be adapted and work in the server side. In fact, the server just needs to send an HTML string that "contains" the <h1>Hello World</h1> inside its body.
So what it makes it universal/isomorphic? The fact that the code can understand in which environment it runs (the browser, the server or possibly an other environment) and it keeps functioning. Remember: code usually only runs in one of the two environments, the thing is that you wrote some common code that can run in both environments (universal).
The behavior of a more complex Universal App
Imagine that you struggle to develop a new Universal website. The code can acknowledge in which environment it is running and work just fine. So you have, let's say, 80% of your code that is shared, it doesn't even need to know the environment, and the rest of your code is there to managing the fact that your app can be used in the client or in the server.
How does this work?
The client first contacts the server that returns some HTML to the client with all the content of the page, elaborated in the server. So the server renders the application. In the mean time the browser downloads the script file where your single page can work in the client. The client is now rendering the same page again. You won't see anything, because if it is properly done, it will just be the same (of course all the animations and real time features have to work client-side, so you will eventually see your animations starting)
When the user clicks an internal link or uses an interactive feature, or eventually fills out and submits a form, the client-side code is in use. The server doesn't get any request, especially assuming that all the interaction are abstracted in an API that is not our isomorphic app.
If the user goes crazy and wants to deactivate JavaScript, how do you assure that, for example, forms still work? Here is a trick you can use:
<form
method="post"
action="/api/fakeBackendRoute"
onSubmit={this.handleSubmit}
>
[input fields here]
</form>
When the client JS is available, the handleSubmit is executed and the propagation of the event is prevented. This way the server side code will never fire.
If the client JS is disabled, then handleSubmit will never be executed and you have to care that your /api/fakeBackendRoute will handle the data exactly how the client would.
Why do people use it?
In my opinion the difficulty of undertaking the development of an Universal App is often underestimated. Good reasons to use it are:
Be more SEO friendly
Support very old browsers. For example, if you want to support IE8, you could do something like this:
<!--[if gt IE 8]><!-->
<script src="yourfile.js"></script>
<!--<![endif]-->
Be more accessible for people that don't want to use JavaScript
Other reasons could be:
Performance, if it matters to your application. You can improve your response time by using, for example, a lot of Node capabilities to stream your HTML string in the first request, and eventually later be more in the client, where things will be likely faster. But you could decide whether it is faster to render on the client or on the server, depending on the content and how you create your assets.
If someone knows other good reasons, just comment below and I will add them.
Some good reference links:
https://medium.com/airbnb-engineering/isomorphic-javascript-the-future-of-web-apps-10882b7a2ebc
https://medium.com/front-end-developers/handcrafting-an-isomorphic-redux-application-with-love-40ada4468af4
https://github.com/xgrommx/awesome-redux
Question regarding javascript debugging:
We have a mobile app, made with JavaScript and HTML. This app is running on the mobile platform (BlackBerry 10, Android, iOS) inside a web container.
There is another part of this application running on the remote server. This part is implemented also with JavaScript running on Node.js.
Assume there is some communication established between the client (JS on mobile) and the server (JS on Node.js) sides using e.g. REST.
The question I would like to know is if it is possible to seamlessly debug both sides at the same time.
E.g. if I have a breakpoint on the mobile app client side, how would I be able to debug all the way to JS on the server side, if it’s possible at all.
Any suggestions would help.
You can use node-inspector on the server, then you'll have TWO instances, but the same debugger toolset.
If you're stepping through code client, and want to debug "into" the server, you must place a breakpoint in the server debugger before making the GET/POST from the client.
TIP: Get a three (at least two) monitor setup.
Using the node inspector is a good strategy for doing debugging, but it would also be good to supplement the debugger with logging.
Debugging will let you step through an event chain and examine values of variables and output of functions in that chain, but in production it won't give you insight into the steps or production conditions that lead to errors users are experiencing (i.e. Why do I have a null variable? Why is my response message wrong?) If you use debugging without logging you'll be trying to replicate the conditions in production that are causing an error, which is an inefficient (and usually futile) way of doing things.
I'd say the best way to implement what you want to do (solve issues taking into account client & server events that happen concurrently) is to implement an open source logging library like Log4j on both your server and your client and configure an appender to send the logs to a log aggregator like Loggly which gives you tools to analyze both client & server logs in the same place (rather than extracting log files from both devices manually).
Once you've done this, you'll be able to distribute your application out to testers and you'll be able to see what actions, application logs, and hardware/network conditions surround certain issues. With this data in hand you'll know a lot better what leads to certain bugs and can use that information to much more effectively use node-inspector to debug them.
I'm currently looking for a new web stack to build a hobby project on and would like it to be powered by JavaScript. I've had a quick look at Nitro, NarwhalJS etc. but was wondering if anyone had any solid recommendations or experience of an entire end-to-end javascript/json architecture ( jquery, middleware, standard libraries, db etc.) that they could share.
I'd prefer it to be a stack that you think is going to grow and is actively being looked after, documentation, community of nice like-minded individuals etc.
Thanks in advance.
Caveat: This answer somewhat fails to meet your basic requirement of personal experience with the resources listed. :-)
Off-the-cuff, there's Jaxer from Aptana and Chrome Server (which, despite the name, isn't related to Google Chrome AFAIK). Speaking of Chrome, though, there's an Apache CGI module that supports server-side scripting using JavaScript via Google's V8 engine, but that doesn't help you much with DB connectivity and such.
I'll also plug Java and Rhino, which I have used a bit. Via Rhino, you can compile JavaScript into Java bytecode (which, if you're using the Sun runtime, is JIT-compiled to machine code by Hotspot). That means you can run JavaScript in any servlet container (Tomcat, Resin, etc.). The joy here is that all of the huge array of goodies available for Java is instantly available to you via JavaScript -- so, MySQL connectors, image manipulation libraries, just about anything you can imagine. It's also amazingly easy to access those resources from JavaScript via Rhino. To give you an idea:
importPackage(java.io);
var f = new FileWriter("test.txt");
f.write("Testing 1 2 3");
f.close();
...and we've just written a file on the server via JavaScript, using Java's java.io.FileWriter class. You can also execute dynamic scripts at runtime via the javax.script package, which (for JavaScript) uses Rhino under the covers, although I'm not immediately coming up with a use case for doing that. :-)
For the database part of the stack:
Couchdb uses JSON and REST to store data in a document format. It uses PUT,DELETE for storage - I'm not sure how that would work with Javascript.
Helma should work well as a web server layer. It streamlines the use of Rhino as the web tier logic language.
I'm building a new service called PageForest that helps developers write totally client-side javascript programs, with PageForest providing storage and user management. Here's a sample page:
http://pfsamples.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/SAMTable/index.html#mckoss_16
This is still a work in progress, but I'd love to get some feedback on the approach. You can find more samples at the pfsamples.googlecode.com site.
Check out JScript / Windows Scripting Host(wsh) and possibly HTA's. HTA's can actually be served via a webserver and act as a locally running application with extended rights. If you want pure web development you can use WSH and some IIS tweaking to process server requests on the back end with pure javascript code in a WSF file. WSH also provides access to the file system, ODBC compliant databases and a slew of other COM exposed applications via the ActiveX model. We're not talking blazing speed, but you're programming in javascript to begin with.
Here are some links on the "stack"
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms536496(VS.85).aspx
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/15x4407c(VS.85).aspx
How about using
GWT-Spring-Hibernate-MYSql