Benchmark for Google Closure Library - javascript

When I search for performance of Javascript libraries I get many sites showing the comparision of performance between the following popular libraries
jQuery (pretty slow)
Prototype(very slow in IE)
Dojo ( fastest when comes to DOM )
ExtJs (average)
Micro JS( slow but OK )
But in any of the benchmarks, Google Closure Library is NOT included. Is it not like any other standard library for it is said that it is a procedural style library.
I need some benchmarks on the performance of Closure library. And would like an advice on "Is switching to Closure library good when using dojo at beginner stage and jQuery at some intermediate stage"
Google posts that it uses the closure library in all its apps like Gmail, etc... The performance is very good. Is this because of the library ? Can an intermediate javaScript coder who can write OO code in JS use Closure library to very high level, or is it advisable to continue using DOJO.

On Closure Library
The Closure Library is pretty close to Dojo in style -- actually, when it was first developed, the authors took inspiration from Dojo.
However, the speed and power of the Closure Library came from the Closure Compiler, which heavily optimizes a JavaScript program in order to remove all the bottlenecks (such as navigating chains of namespaces).
I personally don't like it a single bit as it detracts from the beauty of Dojo class-based constructs (simply to satisfy the compiler) and all those goog.kitchen.sink.getMeACupOfTeaSoICanRelax() long namespaces make writing (and reading) JavaScript programs a royal pain -- the fact that long namespaces are all optimized away by the compiler does not make it pretty (to me) to overuse them because you can.
In addition, its obsession with trying to make JavaScript programs look as much OOP as possible (perhaps because there are tons of Java programmers in Google) means over-reliance on OOP concepts like property getters and setters and the avoidance of many useful (and unique) JavaScript features like mixin's. If you are a Java programmer learning to program in JavaScript, you'll be right at home using the Closure Library. That doesn't make it any bit elegant.
It does, however, offer an industrial strength environment that is rock solid -- since Google has built HUGE sites with it. It is something that (in my personal opinion) is solid and works well, but looks ugly.
However, Dojo is rock solid as well, but more volatile since it is an open-source development project. You decide whether you'd like to switch.
On the Closure Compiler and Dojo
Actually, you can use Dojo with the Closure Compiler in Advanced Mode also. See this link for a description on how to do it. Based on my own tests, a program compiled by the Closure Compiler is typically around 25% smaller than minified versions (due to dead-code elimination) and runs about 20-30% faster for simple pages and more for large pages.
On Speed of Libraries in General
Other libraries all have their own characteristics and quirks, and each balance useability, flexibility and power with performance. For example, jQuery creates many many jQuery objects on the way and has a performance penalty, especially on older browsers. However, modern browsers, esp. Google Chrome, actually does optimizations so that the performance hits of using jQuery is minimal.
You actually need to ask yourself why you need JavaScript to run fast. Most modern browsers are already quite fast so that it is really not a very important consideration regarding choice of library. Better choose your library based on whether it suits you or not (and the task you're at hand) instead of whether it runs 10ms faster in a browser.
If you are writing a web site for mobile devices, or writing an HTML5 game for instance, you may need to squeeze the last drop of performance (in games) and/or save as much resources as possible (in mobile). In such cases, I find that using Dojo and then compiling with the Closure Compiler yields one of the best combinations for such scenarios.

Would be nice to back this up with some data. There's lies, statistics and benchmarks. You may for example ask yourself why framework x is slower then framework y. In general though, benchmarks do not reflect real world scenario's, and end to be fun, but useless. I've worked with jQuery for a few years now and I've not encountered situations where it's slow, or that it had any effect on the usability.
I your code is too slow and you need to optimize it. Then you may benchmark, profile and debug the sweet jesus out of that code. Things like gmail are likely to have had that kind of treatment. So gmail is probably not fast because of closure, but fast because of intelligent programming.
If you're affraid of slow code, you might want to learn generic javascript optimization methods, and you'll be a happy camper with any framework.
edit: on closure
Choosing closure might have several advantages when you're building big and complex: there are some nice bandwith optimization tools, tools for managing more complex applications. There is a good guideline on how to write proper code, and tools to check that you followed these guidelines (closure linter, quite interesting). There's a nice templating system (probably won't improve your performance per se) and dependency management stuff. If you wish to integrate these tools, or build upon it, I would say go for it, otherwise, you may rest easy and be happy with your choice for dojo.

using dojo at beginner stage and jQuery at some intermediate stage
You've got that the wrong way around. Dojo is far more advanced than jQuery. jQuery itself is for beginners.
Can an intermediate javaScript coder who can write OO code in JS use Closure library to very high level, or is it advisable to continue using DOJO.
Either library will work. Spend a few hours playing with google closure and see how you find it. I doubt there's that much difference apart from general easy integration with google libraries like google charts.

Related

Wrap jQuery, dojo with custom library?

Coming from Java, I'm wondering if a Java best practice applies to JavaScript.
In Java, there's a separation of interface and implementation, and mixing them up is considered a bad practice. By the same token, it is recommended to hide implementation details of your library from end developers.
For example, log4J is one of the most popular logging libraries out there but it is recommended to write code to the slf4j library or the Commons Logging library that "wraps" log4j. This way, if you choose to switch to another logging framework such as logback, you can do so without changing your code. Another reason is that you, as a user of a logging library, how logging is done is none of your concern, as long as you know what logging does.
So back to JavaScript, most non-trivial web applications have their own custom JavaScript libraries, many of which use open source libraries such as jQuery and dojo. If a custom library depends on, say jQuery, not as an extension, but as implementation, do you see the need to add another layer that wraps jQuery and makes it transparent to the rest of JavaScript code?
For example, if you have the foo library that contains all your custom, front-end logic, you'd introduce the bar library that just wraps jQuery. This way, your foo library would use the bar library for jQuery functions, but it is totally oblivious to jQuery. In theory, you could switch to other libraries such as dojo and google web toolkit without having a big impact on the foo library.
Do you see any practical value in this? Overkill?
Although it makes sense from a theoretical standpoint, in practice I'd say it's overkill. If nothing else for these two reasons:
Anything that adds to the size of
the request (or adds more requests)
is bad - in web world, less is more.
If you're using say jQuery, the
chances of you switching to
something like Mootools is (imho) slim to none. From what I've seen, the top libraries each aim to solve different problems (at least in the case of Mootools and jQuery - see this great doc for more info on that). I'd assume that you'd incur a tremendous amount of headache if you were to try to implement a middleware library that could easily switch between the two.
In my experience and being a Java developer myself, sometimes we tend to take the whole "abstraction" layer pattern too far, I've seen implementations where someone decided to completely abstract a certain framework just for the sake of "flexibility" but it ends up making things more complicated and creating more code to maintain.
Bottom line is you should look at it on a case by case basis, for example you wouldn't try to create an abstraction layer on top of struts, or on top of JPA, just in case you then go to a different framework (which I've rarely seen done).
My suggestion is, regardless of the framework you are using, create objects and components that use the framework internally, they should model your problem and be able to interact between them without the need of any specific framework.
Hope this helps.
There are a lot of good answers here, but one thing I don't see mentioned is feature sets. If you try to write a library to wrap the functionality provided by, say, jQuery, but you want to be able to easily swap out for something like prototype, you have a problem. The jQuery library doesn't provide all the features prototype provides, and prototype doesn't provide all the features jQuery provides. On top of that, they both provide their features in radically different ways (prototype extends base objects -- that's damn near impossible to wrap).
In the end, if you tried to wrap these libraries in some code that adds 'abstraction' to try to make them more flexible, you're going to lose 80% of what the frameworks provided. You'll lose the fancy interfaces they provide (jQuery provides an awesome $('selector') function, prototype extends base objects), and you'll also have to decide if you want to leave out features. If a given feature is not provided by both frameworks, you have to either ditch it or reimplement it for the other framework. This is a big can of worms.
The whole problem stems from the fact that Java is a very inflexible language. A library provides functionality, and that's it. In JavaScript, the language itself is insanely flexible, and lets you do lots of crazy things (like writing a library, and assigning it to the $ variable). The ability to do crazy things lets developers of javascript libraries provide some really creative functionality, but it means you can't just find commonalities in libraries and write an abstraction. I think writing javascript well requires a significant change in perspective for a Java developer.
Someone wise once said "premature optimization is the root of all evil." I believe that applies in this case.
As others have expressed, you don't want to abstract for the sake of flexibility until you have an actual need for the abstraction. Otherwise you end up doing more work than necessary, and introducing unnecessary complexity before it is required. This costs money and actually makes your code more brittle.
Also, if your code is well organized and well tested, you should not be afraid of major changes. Code is always changing, and trying to anticipate and optimize for a change that may or may not come will almost always get you in more trouble than it saves you.
Acknowledgement: I should give credit to Agile programming and my practice and readings on the topic. What I've said comes directly from my understanding of Agile, and I've found it to be an extremely good razor to cut out the extra fat of my work and get lots done. Also none of what I've said is actually JavaScript specific... I'd apply those principles in any language.
There are good arguments calling this development practice - wrapping in order to switch later - into question in any language.
A good quote by Oren Eini, from his writeup on wrapping ORMs:
Trying to encapsulate to make things
easier to work with, great. Trying to
encapsulate so that you can switch
OR/Ms? Won’t work, will be costly and
painful.
This is definitely something that is done in enterprise environments.
Take for example a company that has their own custom javascript framework that is used on all of their projects. Each of the projects decide to use their own framework (jQuery, Dojo, Prototype) to add functionality to the underlying modules of the company framework. Employees that move between projects can now easily do so because their API with working the project's codebase is still the same, even though the underlying implementation could be different for each project. Abstraction is helpful in these situations.
It is overkill. Javascript is not Java and is not in any way related to Java. It is a completely different language that got J-a-v-a in the name for marketing reasons.
If you are concerned with availability of add-on libraries, then choose a framework with a large ecosystem. In an enterprise environment you will be further ahead by standardising on a vanilla off-the-shelf uncustomised web framework that you can upgrade every year or so tracking the rest of the world. And then supplement that with a SMALL in-house add-on library which you will, of course, have to maintain yourself, not to mention training any new programmers that you hire.
Since you are talking about Javascript in the client (web browser) it is more important that you limit the complexity of the things that people do with it. Don't build huge amounts of client side code, and don't make stuff that is so brittle that another programmer can't maintain it. A web framework helps you both keep the linecount down, and keep your own code reasonably simple.
It is not a question of Javascript best practice, because that would be different for server-side JS such as Rhino or node.js.
Adapter pattern is not a common solution in this case. The only example I know to use this pattern is extjs. Javascript projects are usually too small and they aren't worth the effort you would make by creating such an abstraction layer.
The common solution for this problem is that you try to use multiple frameworks together for example with jquery.noConflict.
I've done this before, and can talk a bit about the experience of writing a library/toolkit wrapper.
The plan was to move from Prototype to some other library. Dojo was the first choice, but at the time I wasn't sure whether that's the library to move everything to (and by everything I mean ~5MB of Prototype-happy JS). So coming from a world of clean interfaces, I was set to write one around Prototype and Dojo; an awesome interface that would make switching out from dojo a breeze, if that was in fact necessary.
That was a mistake that cost a lot of time and effort for a few reasons. The first one is that although two libraries can provide the same functionality, (a) their API will almost always be different, and most importantly (b) the way you program with one library will be different.
To demonstrate, let's take something as common as adding a class-name:
// Prototype
$("target").addClassName('highlighted');
// Dojo
dojo.addClass("target", "highlighted");
// jQuery
$("target").addClass("highlighted");
// MooTools
$('target').set('class', 'highlighted');
Pretty straight-forward so far. Let's complicate it a bit:
// Prototype
Element.addClassName('target', 'highlighted selected');
// Dojo
dojo.addClass("target", ["highlighted", "selected"]);
// jQuery
$("target").addClass(function() {
return 'highlighted selected';
});
// MooTools
$("target").set({
"class": "highlighted selected"
});
Now after choosing an interface for your version of the addClass you have two options: (1) code to the lowest common denominator, or (2) implement all of the non-intersecting features of the libraries.
If you go with the 1st -- you'll loose the "personality" / best qualities of each of the library. If you go with #2 -- your addClass' code will be at 4 times larger than the ones provided by any of the libraries, since for example when Dojo is included, you'll have to write the code for the function as the first param (jQuery) and the Object as the first param (MooTools).
Therefore, although it is theoretically possible, it isn't practical, but is a very nice way to understand the intricacies of the libraries out there.

Should writing Javascript be avoided in favour of GWT/WebSharper or some other abstraction?

I'm curious what's the view on "things that compile into javascript" e.g. GWT, Script# and WebSharper and their like. These seem to be fairly niche components aimed at allowing folks to write javascript without writing javascript.
Personally I'm comfortable writing javascript (using JQuery/Prototype/ExtJS or some other such library) and view things like GWT these as needless abstractions that may end up limiting what a developer needs to accomplish or best-case providing a very long-winded workaround. In some cases you still end up writing javascript e.g. JSNI.
Worse still if you don't know what's going on under the covers you run the risk of unintended consequences. E.g. how do you know GWT is creating closures and managing namespaces correctly?
I'm curious to hear others' opinions. Is this where web programming is headed?
Should JavaScript be avoided in favor of X? By all means!
I will start with a disclaimer: my answer is very biased as I am on the WebSharper developer team. The reason I am on this team in the first place is that I found myself a complete failure in writing pure JavaScript, and then suggested to my company that we try and write a compiler from our favorite language, F#, to JavaScript.
For me, JavaScript is the portable assembly of the web, fulfilling the same role as C does in the rest of the world. It is portable, widely used, and it will stay. But I do not want to write JavaScript, no more than I want to write assembly. The reasons that I do not want to use JavaScript as a language include:
There is no static analysis, it does not even check if functions are called with the right number of arguments. Typos bite!
There is no or a very limited concept of libraries, namespaces, modules, classes, therefore every framework invents their own (a similar situation to that of R5RS Scheme).
The tooling (code editors, debuggers, profilers) is rather poor, and most of it because of (1) and (2): JavaScript is not amenable to static analysis.
There is no or a very limited standard library.
There are many rough edges and a bias to using mutation. JavaScript is a poorly designed language even in the untyped family (I prefer Scheme).
We are trying to address all of these issues in WebSharper. For example, WebSharper in Visual Studio has code completion, even when it exposes third-party JavaScript APIs, like Ext Js. But whether we have or will succeed or fail is not really the point. The point is that it is possible, and, I would hope, very desirable to address these issues.
Worse still if you don't know what's
going on under the covers you run the
risk of unintended consequences. E.g.
how do you know GWT is creating
closures and managing namespaces
correctly?
This is just about writing the compiler the right way. WebSharper, for instance, maps F# lambdas to JavaScript lambdas in a 1-1 manner (in fact, it never introduces a lambda). I would perhaps accept your argument if you mentioned that, say, WebSharper is not yet mature and tested enough and therefore you are hesitant to trust it. But then GWT has been around for a while and should produce correct code.
The bottom line is that strongly typed languages are strictly better than untyped languages - you can easily write untyped code in them if you need to, but you have the option of using the type-checker, which is the programmer's spell-checker. Why wouldn't you? A refusal to do so sounds a bit luddite to me.
Although, I don't personally favor one style over another, I don't think that abstraction from Javascript is the only benefit that these frameworks bring to the table. Surely, in abstracting the entire language, there will be things that become impossible that were previously possible, and vice-versa. The decision to go with a framework such as GWT over writing vanilla JavaScript depends on many factors.
Making this a discussion of JavaScript vs language X is fruitless as each language has its strengths and weaknesses. Instead, do an objective cost-benefit analysis on what is to be gained or lost by going with such a framework, and that can only be done by you and not the SO community unfortunately.
The issue of not knowing what goes on under the hood applies to JavaScript just as much as it does to any translated source. How many people do you think would know exactly what is going on in jQuery when they try to do a comparison such as $("p") == $("p") and get back false as a result. This is not a hypothetical situation and there are several questions on SO regarding the same. It takes time to learn a language or framework, and given sufficient time, developers could just as well understand the compiled source of these frameworks.
Another related aspect to the above question is of trust. We continuously build higher level abstractions upon lower level abstractions, and rely on the fact that the lower level stuff is supposed to work as expected. What was the last time you dug down into the compiled binary of a C++ or Java program just to ensure that it worked correctly? We don't because we trust the compiler.
Moreover, when using such a framework, there is no shame in falling back to JavaScript using JSNI, for example. It's all about solving the problem in the best possible manner with the tools at hand. There is nothing sacred about JavaScript, or Java, or C#, or Ruby, etc. They are all tools for solving problems, and while it may be a barrier for you, it might be a real time-saver and advantageous to someone else.
As for where I think web programming is headed, there are many interesting trends that I think or rather hope will succeed such as JavaScript on the server side. It solves very real problems for me at least in that we can avoid code duplication easily in a web application. Same validations, logic, etc. can be shared on the client and server sides. It also allows for writing a simple (de)serialization mechanism so RPC or RMI communication becomes possible very easily. I mean it would be really nice to be able to write:
account.debit(200);
on the client side, instead of:
$.ajax({
url: "/account",
data: { amount: 200 },
success: function(data) {
..
}
error: function() {
..
}
});
Finally, it's great that we have all this diversity in frameworks and solutions for building web applications as the next generation of solutions can learn from the failures of each and focus on their successes to build even better, faster, and more awesome tools.
I have three big practical issues I have with websharper and other compilers that claim to avoid the pain of Javascript.
If you won’t know Javascript well you can’t understand most of the examples on the web of using the DOM/ExtJs etc., so you have to learn Javascript whatever. (For the some reason all F# programmers must be able to at least read C# or VB.NET otherwise they cannot access most information about the .net framework)
On any web project you need a few web experts that know the DOM and CSS inside out; would such a person be willing to work with F# rather than Javascript?
Being tied into the provider of the compiler, will they be about in 5 years’ time; I want full open source or the tools to be supported by Microsoft.
The 4 big positives I see with these frameworks are:
Shareing code between the server/client
Having fewer languages a programmer needs to know (javascript is a real pain as it looks like Jave/C# but is not anything like them)
The average quality of a F# programmer is a lot better than a jscript programmer.
My opinion for what it's worth is that every framework has its pros/cons and a project team should evaluate their use cases before including one. To me any framework is just a tool to be used to solve a problem, and you should pick the best one for the job.
I prefer to stick to pure JavaScript solutions myself, but that being said I can think of a few cases where GWT would be helpful.
GWT would allow a team to share code between the server/client, reducing the need to write the same code twice (JS and Java). Or if someone was porting a Java client to a web UI, they may find it easier to stick to GWT ( of course then again it may make it harder :-) ).
I know this is a gross over-simplification, because there are many other things that frameworks like GWT offer, but here is how I view it: if you like JavaScript, write JavaScript; if you don't, use GWT or Cappuccino or whatever.
The reason people use frameworks like GWT is not necessarily the abstraction that they give--you can have that with JavaScript frameworks like ExtJS--but rather the fact that they allow you to write web applications in something other than JavaScript. If I were a Java programmer who wanted to write a web application, I would use GWT because I would not have to learn a new language.
It's all preference, really. I prefer to write JavaScript, but many people don't.

Supporting Multiple JS libraries

I have developed one of my modules using Dojo. Its gone really well and I have done a lot of custom plugins and server support in Dojo to allow AJAX calls, RPC + SMD communication with my server.
However, now that I am getting onto the user side of things, I am seeing that jQuery has some really nice already built plugins. Do you think it is possible to support both JS libraries realistically without it being a massive problem?
What kind of integration can I achieve? Does anyone have experience in this?
I have probably written somewhere in the region of 30k lines in Dojo for my Administration panel...
jQuery is very good about not messing with the prototypes of built in javascript objects (unlike Prototype), this allows it to be used with other libraries quite easily.
A source of potential conflict is jQuery's use of $ as a shortcut for jQuery. I'm not a dojo user, but if this conflicts with dojo in some way, there are instructions addressing this.
That said, I think you'd be better off looking at these jquery plugins and rewriting them and porting them to dojo. I'm sure the dojo community would appreciate it, and it would give you experience. It'd also make your application a little slimmer in the waist area.
Edit: I've noticed a couple answers trivializing the download speed of adding an additional library. I'd take this with a grain of salt.
As developers we tend to see only the extra 10ms it takes to download the library over localhost, or from our development server on a 100 Mbit LAN. The download speed is not so trivial from California to Virginia, or especially from USA to Europe. Additionally, it adds further burden on your client's javascript engine. If they are using a 1-2 year old good computer with Safari or Chrome, this would be negligible, but if they're on IE, FF2, or some versions of FF3 the difference can be severe, or at least measurable.
When using 2 libraries (both of which, I'm sure - were designed to be used by themselves) you have 2 main worries:
That one library will effect the other.
That having a dependency on 2 libraries will bloat your pages.
In this case, I would bet that #1 is not going to happen. Although #2 is still a concern.
Most of the popular JS libraries can be scoped to their own global shortcuts. JQuery can be set to not initialize the $ variable. JQuery aside, I hear that Dojo and Prototype can work together without conflicting.
Regardless of what combination of JS libraries you decide to use, the best way to get information on compatibility issues is to hit the mailing lists relevant to the JS libs you'll be using with each other.
http://docs.jquery.com/Using_jQuery_with_Other_Libraries
http://www.dev411.com/blog/2006/06/13/dojo-and-prototype-together
Query.noConflict() makes for fairly easy interoperability because you can redefine $. As hobodave draws attention to, Prototype is lousy in this regard (because you can't easily just redefine $ with Prototype). I am not sure but I think Dojo doesn't have any issues of it's own and plays nicely with others out of the box (please someone correct me if that's not true).
The biggest problem I've had is the number of "must have" libraries written in specific frameworks, such as for things like sophisticated graphing that would be non-trivial to implement from scratch.
Bloat is bad, but compared to image sizes JS script sizes are of negligible concern (because it's so small and connections are so fast and it's only on first page load if you get your caching right, it's almost a non issue). I'd say maintiainablity being more of a worry, and it's a matter of deciding if you want that must-have-plugin that you don't have the time or inclination to reinvent in whatever framework you are using.
I have used Prototype, jQuery, and ExtJS on several projects (for various reasons) and almost always use jQuery and ExtJS together. One way to limit trouble would be to avoid mixing libraries in any given page - keep Admin page to dojo and new pages to jQuery - but what fun would that be? :-)
I find few problems when integrating jQuery and ExtJS. I pick a framework for classes/objects/inheritance (I use ExtJS) and stick to it. Then, I use ExtJS to create most widgets and I use jQuery for low-level DOM manipulation and simple widgets. Again, I cannot recall running into conflicts when using two libraries, but FireBug is a good tool to uncover suspected causes of such conflicts.

JavaScript/CSS vs. Silverlight vs. Flex

We currently have a quite complex business application that contains a huge lot of JavaScript code for making the user interface & interaction feel as close to working with a traditional desktop application as possible (since that's what our users want). Over the years, this Javascript code has grown and grown, making it hard to manage & maintain and making it ever more likely that adding new functionallity will break some existing one. Needless to say, lots of this code also isn't state of the art anymore.
Thus, we have some ongoing discussion whether the client-side part of the application should be written anew in either Flex or Silverlight, or written anew with some state of the art JavaScript framework like jQuery, or whether we should simply carry on with what we have and gradually try to replace the worst bits of the existing code. What makes this even harder to decide is that writing the UI anew will probable cost us 6-12 person months.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on that issue (maybe some of you have already had to make a similar decission).
EDIT: To answer some of the questions that came up with the answers: The back-end code is written in C#, the target audience are (usually) non-technical users from the companies we sell the software to (not the general public, but not strictly internal users either), the software 'only' has to run in desktop browsers but not necessarily on mobile devices, and the client app is a full-blown UI.
In all honesty, I would refactor the old JavaScript code and not rewrite the application. Since you are asking about which platform to put it in, I would guess that your team isn't an expert in any of them (not slamming the team, it's just a simple fact that you have to consider when making a decision). This will work against you as you'll have double duty rewriting and learning how to do things on the new platform.
By keeping it in JavaScript, you can slowly introduce a framework if you choose and do it iteratively (Replace on section of code, test it, release it, and fix any bugs). This will allow you to do it at a slower pace and get feedback along the way. That way too, if the project is canceled part way through, you aren't out all the work, because the updated code is being used by the end users. Remember the waterfall model, which is essentially what a full swap out of will be almost never works.
As much as I hate to admit this, as it is always the most fun for developers, shifting platforms, and replacing an entire system at once rarely works. There are countless examples of this, Netscape for one. Here is the post from Spolsky on it. (I would also recommend the book Dreaming in Code. It is an excellent example of a software project that failed and how and why). Remember to rewrite a system from scratch you are essentially going to have to go through every line of code and figure what it does and why. At first you think you can skip it, but eventually it comes down to this. Like you said, your code is old, and that means there are most likely hacks in it to get something done. Some of these you can ignore, and others will be, "I didn't know the system needed it to do that."
These things spring to mind:
As you have a .Net backend and you have some ability to force your customers onto a specific platform, Silverlight is an option;
Since your client is a full-blown UI you want widgets and possibly other features like Drag and Drop;
I haven't seen any requirements that to me would justify starting over (which often doesn't work out) in Flex/Silverlight (eg streaming video, SVG support. Added to your team's familiarity with Javascript, I think you can't make a compelling case for doing it in anything other than Javascript.
But of course Javascript is lots of things and there are [lots of Javascript frameworks1. The most important divider is whether your intent is to "decorate" a set of Web pages or you need a full set of Widgets to create a desktop-like application on the Web. Your question indicate it is the latter.
As such--and I may get downvoted for saying this--I don't think jQuery is the answer and I say this as someone who loves jQuery. jQuery (imho) is great to enhance Webpages and abstract cross-browser low-level functionality but the most important factor for complex UI developer is this:
It's all about the widgets.
And yes I'm aware of jQuery UI but it's a lot sparser than the others when it comes to widgets. I suggest you take a look at the samples and widget galleries of some frameworks:
YUI Examples Gallery;
ExtJS demo; and
SmartClient feature explorer.
The others (jQuery, Dojo, Mootools, Prototype) are more "compact" frameworks arguably less suited to your purpose.
Also consider the license of each framework when making your decision.
My thoughts on the above three are:
ExtJS has somewhat angered the community in that it started out as LGPL but had a controversial license change (that thread is at 76 pages!) to GPL/commercial at version 2.1. The problem with that the community no longer has an active participation in the framework's development. Not the mainline version anyway. This means it's being developed and supported by a small team (possibly one person) rather than the community. IMHO it's not worth paying a commercial license for that and GPL is probably prohibitive in your situation;
YUI is supported by Yahoo and available under a far more permissive and far less invasive BSD license. It's mature, well-used and well worth serious consideration; and
SmartClient impresses me a lot. It has perhaps the most permissive license of all (LGPL), is roughly seven years old, has an incredibly impressive array of widgets available. Check out their feature explorer.
Your decision should be based on how you get as much of your application "for free" as possible. You don't want to spending valuable developer time doing things like:
Coding UI widgets like trees and accordions;
Testing and fixing cross-browser Javascript and CSS issues;
Creating homegrown frameworks that greatly duplicate what existing frameworks do and do well.
I would seriously look at one of the above three as your path forward.
This decision is usually less about the technology, and more about your skill sets and comfort zones.
If you have guys that eat and breathe Javascript, but know nothing about .net or Flash/Flex then there's nothing wrong with sticking with Javascript and leaning on a library like jQuery or Prototype.
If you have skills in either of the others then you might get a quicker result using Silverlight or Flex, as you get quite a lot of functionality "for free" with both of them.
My opinion on this one's pretty simple: unless the app needs to be accessible publicly, unless it needs to be search-engine optimized and findable, and/or there's an otherwise compelling case for its having to remain strictly text-based, then the chips are stacked in favor of rich-client runtimes like Flash or Silverlight right out of the gate.
A big reason, if not the biggest, is that they eliminate the complexities of developing for multiple browsers and platforms. Again: they eliminate the runtime-environment variable. No more debugging old versions of Netscape and IE, no more object detection and consequent branching, no more wacky CSS hacks -- one codebase, and you're done. Offloading the runtime environment to Adobe or Microsoft will save you time, money and headaches, all else equal. (Sure, there's YUI, JQuery, etc., but they don't eliminate that variable -- they just abstract it. And they don't abstract all of it, either -- only some of it; ultimately, it's still up to you to test, debug, retest, debug, repeat.)
Of course, your situation's a bit more complicated by the existing-codebase problem, and it's difficult to say definitively which way you should go, because only you've got the code, and we're just geeks with opinions. But assuming, just by your asking the question, that a refactoring of your existing codebase would involve a significant-enough undertaking as to warrant even considering an alternative (and probably comparatively foreign) technology in the first place, which it sounds like it would, then my response is that your curiosity is well-placed, and that you should give them both a serious look before making a decision.
For my part, I'm a longtime server-side guy, ASP.NET/C# for the past several years, and I've written many a text-based line-of-business app in my time, the last few with strong emphasis on delivering rich soverign UIs with JavaScript. I've also spent the last couple of years almost exclusively with Flex. I've got experience in both worlds. And I can tell you without hesitation that right now, it's everyone else's job to beat Flex: it's just an amazingly versatile and productive product, and for line-of-business apps, it remains leaps and bounds ahead of Silverlight. I just can't recommend it highly enough; the data-binding and event-handling features alone are incredible time-savers, to say nothing of the complete freedom you'll have over layout, animation, etc. The list goes on.
So, my advice: take a long, careful look at Flex. In the end, you might find a ground-up rewrite is just too massive an undertaking to justify, and that's fine -- only you can make that determination. (And to be fair, you've just as much ability to make a mess of a Flex project as you do with a JavaScript project -- I know. I've done it.) But all told, Flex is probably the least-limiting, most flexible, most feature-rich and productive option out there right now, so it's certainly worth considering. Good luck!
Any javascript you have that has been developed 'Over the years' probably doesn't look anything like what's possible today. You undoubtedly have a lot of useful code there. nonetheless. So my recommendation would be re-write in javascript using jQuery and make use of one of the available GUI add-ons, perhaps look at Yahoos stuff. You will also be targeting the widest audience this way.
The GUI technology should be first and foremost determined by your target audience. For instance, if you target englobes iPhone users, I would not recommend Flex, because iPhone doesn't have a flash player at the moment.
Bear in mind that if you switch to a full fledged GUI toolkit like Silverlight, your users may find the L&F unnatural, since the usual request-reply cycle is not so evident with client-side frameworks.
After that, it is your developers that should have a word to say. Every toolkit needs maintenance, and if you are switching to a whole new toolkit the developers will have to familiarize with the new toolkit, which can be costly.
My suggestion is that you stick to javascript, since your devs are familiar with it, and gradually replace the old javascript with a new toolkit like prototype, jQuery or any other. You will probably redo some of the old stuff faster using a state-of-the-art toolkit. Remember that you can build beautiful apps with any tookit.
We have developed an extremely rich application using EXTJS with C# and a some C++ on the server. Not only do we have clients who are happy with the interface in their desktop browsers but with very little tweaking to the Javascript we were able to provide web browser support. Also, we have clients in third-world countries who cannot use Flash or Silverlight apps due to their field personnel using kiosks in internet cafes (many of which don't have Flash installed - forget Silverlight!). I think these issues and others make up for the difficulty of coding a complex app in javascript...
Check this comparison table for Flex vs Javascript:

Why is jQuery so widely adopted versus other Javascript frameworks? [closed]

As it currently stands, this question is not a good fit for our Q&A format. We expect answers to be supported by facts, references, or expertise, but this question will likely solicit debate, arguments, polling, or extended discussion. If you feel that this question can be improved and possibly reopened, visit the help center for guidance.
Closed 10 years ago.
I manage a group of programmers. I do value my employees opinion but lately we've been divided as to which framework to use on web projects.
I personally favor MooTools, but some of my team seems to want to migrate to jQuery because it is more widely adopted. That by itself is not enough for me to allow a migration.
I have used both jQuery and MooTools. This particular essay tends to reflect how I feel about both frameworks. jQuery is great for DOM Manipulation, but seem to be limited to helping you do that.
Feature wise, both jQuery and MooTools allow for easy DOM Selection and Manipulation:
// jQuery
$('#someContainer div[class~=dialog]')
.css('border', '2px solid red')
.addClass('critical');
// MooTools
$('#someContainer div[class~=dialog]')
.setStyle('border', '2px solid red')
.addClass('critical');
Both jQuery and MooTools allow for easy AJAX:
// jQuery
$('#someContainer div[class~=dialog]')
.load('/DialogContent.html');
// MooTools (Using shorthand notation, you can also use Request.HTML)
$('#someContainer div[class~=dialog]')
.load('/DialogContent.html');
Both jQuery and MooTools allow for easy DOM Animation:
// jQuery
$('#someContainer div[class~=dialog]')
.animate({opacity: 1}, 500);
// MooTools (Using shorthand notation, you can also use Fx.Tween).
$('#someContainer div[class~=dialog]')
.set('tween', {duration: 500})
.tween('opacity', 1);
jQuery offers the following extras:
Large community of supporters
Plugin Repository
Integration with Microsoft's ASP.NET and VisualStudio
Used by Microsoft, Google and others
MooTools offers the following extras:
Object Oriented Framework with Classic OOP emulation for JS
Extended native objects
Higher consistency between browsers for native functions support.
More easy code reuse
Used by The World Wide Web Consortium, Palm and others.
Given that, it seems that MooTools does everything jQuery does and more (some things I cannot do in jQuery and I can in MooTools) but jQuery has a smaller learning curve.
So the question is, why did you or your team choose jQuery over another JavaScript framework?
Note: While I know and admit jQuery is a great framework, there are other options around and I'm trying to take a decision as to why jQuery should be our choice versus what we use right now (MooTools)?
That's an odd question... I get the impression that...
you are very familiar with mootools and take full advantage of its OOP model, making your code easier to manage and support already.
you realise that jQuery's purpose is somewhat different and tweaked towards DOM manipulation and AJAX and that mootools does do everything jQuery does AND then some.
sounds as if you do not need to be using much in the way of 3-rd party plugins which makes the points of jQuery's popularity and support a bit less important.
Bottom line, is it the hype? jQuery is turning into one of these magical marketing buzzwords like 'AJAX', .NET and Web 2.0 — which is great for them but why do you need to justify staying with the framework that works so well for you? There's also the business considerations which I imagine will cover things like:
framework longevity, or is mootools likely to go away in the face of the ever growing jQuery — very doubtful, seeing as they just released 1.3 beta 1 and have 2.0 is in the pipelines for release by the end of the year.
cost of staff and their training (I imagine finding mootools programmers will be more difficult than these that slap jquery on their C.V / resume).
time (and cost) taken to maintain and extend your systems under each framework given your resources.
Both frameworks are great but I believe your interests are best served in staying with mootools.
Personally, jQuery does exactly what I need.
I try to do most of my stuff in my server-side code, which is well structured: it has proper OOP, layers, and an MVC architecture. When I need to do something with Javascript, I have found (so far) that jQuery has what I need. Frankly, that falls into three categories:
Simple DOM manipulation, usually showing/hiding stuff without hitting the server.
Ajax calls, nuff said.
UI perks, including modal popups, animations, fading transitions from/to hidden/shown. I am a hardcore backend coding guy, and I suck at UI stuff. I really like that jQuery lets me programmatically make stuff that looks appealing.
On top of that, the jQuery plugin library is huge, and I've found quite a few libraries that simplify my client-side work. Good stuff.
MooTools introduces OO thinking, which is nice, but not what I need. I want to keep my structuredness all on the backend, and not have to introduce that thinking to my client-side code. To me, client-side code is a very small piece of the emphasis and thinking about it from a Class-point-of-view is way overkill, and way more work. I feel like I'd be building two applications instead of one if I were to use what I'd think would be best practices for MooToools.
I think that sums up why its so popular, especially around here. By and large, we're backend code-y type people, and jQuery lets us make an appealing UI programmatically, and lets us focus on our backend core.
I'm not a fan of imposing classical object orientation onto JavaScript. There are so many ways to do it that one JavaScript Programmer might be using Base2 for OO, while another uses Prototype or Moo or JS.Class or Joose. Resig deliberately decided not to add classes to jQuery, and that has encouraged people to find more native JavaScript ways to solve problems.
As a result, it's easier for me to read JavaScript other jQuery writers write, and to write jQuery code that's easier for others to read. I typically don't try to emulate class OOP in JavaScript. Instead, I create objects on the fly and pass them around, and I have lots of arrays of objects. It's so easy to understand that I've even found myself carrying that thinking over to OOP languages!
For all I know Moo may very well have caught up with jQuery or surpassed it. But I can't spend my time tracking the 6 or 7 great JavaScript libraries to see which horse is ahead.
I think it's was largely a matter of timing. When masses of programmers jumped into AJAX, jQuery was the hot new cool thing that solved their problems.
Other libraries have largely caught up. YUI, ExtJS, Dojo, Moo--they're all great. But I can't use them all.
I work hard enough trying to figure out the ramifications of the new features of the library I do use. For instance, jQuery added Live events as of 1.3. This actually let me cut code from many pages. Does Moo offer that now too, and how am I supposed to know it happened, if it did?
I'm sure Moo is awesome. I'd love to have the time to learn it. But have you looked at Dojo? I had to use it on one project and found that it had pulled in most of the great ideas from jQuery as well. And it has pubsub and good support for Comet.
I sympathize with you. But your programmers are talking sense. Learning jQuery is good for their careers, and there are more books, examples, and fellow programmers to ask for help if they use jQuery.
If you decide to go jQuery after all, think hard before deciding whether to tack on an OO library. There are some cool ones (like JS.Class or Joose), but taking that step means isolating yourself from how most JavaScript programmers code.
I've been asking myself this very same question for a while now, by means of just trying to wrap my head around the argument. And with ever discussion I read, the overwhelming response has been "More widely adopted - therefore better".
I am one who uses both extensively. JQuery at work (adopted because it was "more widely adopted") and Mootools on personal projects. As a result, I constantly find myself feeling crippled when using JQuery; Be it with JSON support, element creation, event handling... and so on. At work, I find myself writing chains 75 events long... and I feel dirty as a result.
My main overall beef with JQuery though, is that there's a lack of consistency or practice where plug-ins and 3rd party developers are concerned. The anecdotal "More plug-ins are available" really doesn't help me when there's no consistency between the plug-ins, structurally or otherwise. It took me several weeks to learn the "accepted" plug-in model, and even then, I've adapted my own pragmatic style into it, as I find error and inefficiency within the current structures. It can be said that it's a 'Pro' that anyone can jump in and start JQuerying it up. However, I am more inclined to call that a 'Con', in that you will see 30 different ways to accomplish something, and it's difficult to pin an accepted standard.
So what does it mean to "Know JQuery", Does it mean you know how to rock a little .hide().show().fadeIn().fadeOut()?
When I have to get gangster on my JS at work, I miss me some Mootools. I mean no Native JSON support? C'mon......
In response to the "Widely adopted" response, we all know OSCommerce is the most "Widely Adopted" shopping cart, and we all know what a pile of shit that is. I'm in no way comparing JQuery to OSCommerce. I'm simply pointing out the faulty of "Widely Adopted" response.
As for plugins, the App store for apple has what... 100k apps? 50,000 are fart apps. Sure there's a lot of plugins to JQuery, but the ratio of trash to worth-while is great.
jQuery gives you access to crisp and concise functional programming methods. Since the release of method chaining in (LINQ) in C# 3.0 this works very well for .NET programmers. So the flow from one language to the next is easy. To be able to query the DOM for an object, or a list of objects, works much better for us. It is jQuery's selection power first that makes it so attractive, then the extendability of it, and of course all the built in features that come with it are nice. Also, the community behind is wonderful in that I first look to see if someone else did something and then attempt to do it myself if a solution was not found. And last...but certainly not least...the fact that Microsoft is going to include in in Visual Studio 10 and support it is great. Moo Tools, Prototype, etc. just can't compete with all of the above.
JS frameworks are so much alike, anyway. If you've been working with mootools for some time, stick to it. Knowing your framework is much more important than choosing one because of this or that.
In my opinion, mootools is better for advanced javascript programmers, while jquery is better for non-javascript programmers. That's what I think after reading both documentations, mind you, I didn't use any of them. jQuery lacks support for the core of javascript, function binding, object cloning, thread stacking, to name a few.
jQuery, like any framework, does what it does and if it doesn't fit your needs you should use something else. I don't use jQuery to do complicated programming in javascript, I use it because it makes DOM manipulation and CSS3 style stuff simple and 95% of the time that is what I need.
I have not looked at MooTools in a while either. But here are my points for JQuery:
Consistent programming model (there is a JQuery way that works)
Excellent documentation. When I started JQuery had the best documentation out there.
Extensive 3rd party plugings
Microsoft support -- I am an asp.net developer, this helps ease clients minds. Plus it ships with my tools now.
Lots of getting started guides.
JQuery's website looks nicer than MooTool's web site. I'm sorry that matters, but it does. Remember, many of these tools need to appeal to designers as well as developers.
YAGNI.
Yes, it's kinda out of place here, but that's the main reason jQuery has a larger base than MooTools. All those extras MooTools brings to the table are nice, but YAGNI.
It's not about best, it's about satisficing -- finding the adequate solution to the problem at hand. jQuery is easy to use, its primary aim is DOM manipulation. Since 95% of the people picking up javascript are doing so just to manipulate the DOM, there's no point in going through the longer MooTools learning curve. MooTools simply doesn't bring anything to the table for them that jQuery doesn't deliver with less effort.
MooTools demands more from you before you use it, jQuery lets you throw something together quickly. If you start writing large, heavy-duty js apps, you might run into some of the drawbacks of that approach, but again 95% of the folks writing js don't do that, so those things don't matter to them. They use a server-side language for the heavy-lifting and javascript for the DOM.
For that matter, they may not matter to your team, either. To take you through the lists, point by point (jQuery first):
Large community of supporters -- only slightly relevant to the project. Of more relevance to the team personally, because it speaks to life after you. If misfortune strikes (please, God, no) and your firm is gone, jQuery gets them more jobs than MooTools.
Plugin Repository -- very relevant, as it helps keep from reinventing the wheel.
Integration with Microsoft's ASP.NET and VisualStudio -- very relevant if you're a .NET shop. In fact, this alone should be the reason to switch if you do .NET.
Used by Microsoft, Google and others -- who cares?
Now for the MooTools list:
Object Oriented Framework with Classic OOP emulation for JS -- irrelevant, unless the nature of your projects makes that a plus. I don't know what you're building, but for web shops, this is only rarely relevant. Most web shops don't have enough code to make this a plus.
Extended native objects -- again irrelevant for most web shops
Higher consistency between browsers for native functions support. -- Relevant
More easy code reuse -- This conflicts a little with the jQuery advantage of a large repository. A large repository by itself speaks to reusing code. I suspect you're using a narrow definition of code reuse, here, that may not be relevant. I've reused a lot of the jQuery code I've built, as well as MT code.
Used by The World Wide Web Consortium, Palm and others. -- Irrelevant. The only relevance about who else is using what is if you're wanting a job there. There's more relevance in how many shops use it than in any particular shop using it.
There is no One True Way to approach javascript coding. Get your bias out of the way, and sit down with your team and get their bias out of the way as well. Talk turkey about the specific types of projects you're undertaking (and want to undertake) and the strengths of each library as applied to those cases. (How they might handle other cases doesn't matter, because those other cases don't exist.) You should arrive at a consensus from that.
(YAGNI = You Ain't Gonna Need It, if I need to explain it.)
I choose to use jQuery as our default UI library precisely because it does not extend or otherwise monkeypatch native objects, unlike prototype.js or mootools. Kick in the documentation angle and there really is no question as to which framework to use.
You kinda say it yourself:
Given that, it seems that MooTools does everything jQuery does and more (some things I cannot do in jQuery and I can in MooTools) but jQuery has a smaller learning curve.
Most of the extra stuff that MooTools does is stuff that we just don't need.
As you say yourself jQuery is easier to learn, which is actually more important for most people when choosing a framework.
What I DON'T need in JavaScript is definetely OOP and some ugly object emulation.
Last time I checked MooTools (maybe 1,5 years ago :-), it had browser incompatibilities with manipulating multiple select.
So jQuery is completely looks OK to me.
Not only is jQuery a nice library, but its creator, John Resig, also has some street cred as the author of Pro Javascript Techniques.
We have 2-3 copies of this book around our office.
jQuery is small (intentionally so) but can have functionality added to it through plugins.
The thing that made my experience with mootools a rather unpleasant one was the documentation and the stability of the API:
I simply wasn't able to find a documentation that related to the mootools-Version in use. Won't be that much of a problem if the API defined was stable. But due to some functions that disappeared in the newer Version (a ChangeLog was found after hours of searching) a migration wasn't possible either. After that, mootools was out of the race for me.
Like many others, I don't want to introduce class-based OOP into simple user-interface manipulations. Thats what I use jQuery for: not so complicated user-interface stuff.
When I have to build rich browser-side applications, I'd always switch to the big solutions (ExtJS, YUI, qooxdoo) that offer a variety of ready to use widgets.
Larger User Community and more wide-spread adoption makes a big difference when comparing tools/libraries that offer similar functionality and concepts. Larger community means more support, more examples, more good ideas, and more reusable code snippets, which is especially important when you're working on a rare scenario -- more likely someone else has encountered it before.
Secondly, in benchmarks I've seen, jQuery is faster than MooTools.
I also really like their emphasis on keeping a small core and adding functionality through plugins. Prevents the core library from getting really big and unwieldy.
I've never used MooTools personally but I have no doubt that its a fantastic library that offers some acceptable equivalent to most any jQuery feature or concept, but point #1 takes the cake for me.
Another reason: It's easier to sell jquery to management. Doing internal, asp.net based developement in a corporate environment the magic words are "it's supported by Visual Studio".
For one thing, that's not all it does. There are quite a few other features as well. For another, not everyone uses it. But I don't want to interrupt a good rant.
I have to second a lot of the answers...great documentation and community support is crucial. I used to hate js programming and would avoid it like the plauge, but now I've completely embraced it because of jquery and the quick learning curve.
It's not always about who has the best technology!
Mootools, does not function properly or does not function at all when using jquery prototype etc. Agreed there is absolutely no reason to use them simultaneously, but once in a while they do land up on the same page (ex. plugins, slideshows, widgets etc) and things stop working.
That in itself is unacceptable. So all props for jquery to not create unnecessary headaches!
Why did people start using fax machines? At a certain point the benefit increases exponentially.

Categories