I am trying to get into web development, specially interested building the front-end, UI part of websites while learning JavaScript maybe with AJAX technology. (I have a UI, HCI background.)
However, I have absolutely no previous knowledge about server-end web development either. To my understanding, frameworks like Django seem to pretty good at this (correct me if I am misunderstanding).
So the question is: how much Django, or Rails do I need to know, if my interest is primarily the user interface part of web development. Can I just let somebody else do the back-end stuff?
Pardon me for my imprecise choice of terminologies.
You need to know a bit about the server side. Here's what you need to know.
If you have a heavy JavaScript website, you're likely going to want to pass information from the server to clients with JSON (JavaScript Object Notation). This is just a way to format data into strings that JavaScript knows how to convert to objects.
So, each of your server-side functions that send data to the client will return JSON. If you have someone writing the server-side for you, that's all you should have to know. You're JS functions will receive JSON, and then you deal with it.
If you have to write the server-side yourself, then that involves 1) getting data from database 2) formatting the data 3) converting to JSON.
I have open-sourced a commenting widget that accepts JSON messages, and gives examples of how you would set up the Django server code. Maybe it will help you: http://www.trailbehind.com/comment_widget/
You can make a career of front-end user interface development without know a ton about server code. You would do well though to have at least a rudimentary understanding of what happens on the server when you send it a request, where your data comes from, and what the life-cycle of a web page is. This assumes that you have the support of back-end developers. As you mentioned Ajax in your question that implies that you want your web sites to actually do something, which will require things to happen on the back-end (such as storage, manipulation of data, logging in a user, etc.).
As with all things, the more you know, the easier it will be to get what you want from the dedicated professionals. I would suggest that you learn about programming in general, not try an learn a language and framework. In particular, try to understand datatypes, server settings (like timeouts, post versus get, etc.), security and database interactions as they exist beyond JavaScript/ECMAScript. That way when a developer is explaining why they cannot do something you have requested or are offering alternatives, you are speaking the same language.
Yes and no. Typically what people think of AJAX, such as posting a comment on YouTube and seeing the comment appear instantly with a thank you message, for example, requires a server side language handling the requests, looking up data and returning results as html snippets, JSON data, or XML.
However, an AJAX call can be made to static resources as well. You could have an XML file or html snippet stored statically on your web server and have it loaded. The uses for this sort of static loading are generally fewer because if you already have the static html or data in file next to your regular page, why not just put that data directly into the page?
It helps to set up a local server and write a few lines of code to service your AJAX calls. You can do a lot of JavaScript learning with just a little back-end learning.
If you're new in web development you'd rather wait with Ajax and server-side languages until you've learnt the basics with HTML, CSS and JavaScript, especially if you want to mostly work with the user interface and not the funcionality.
As you said you can let somebody else do the back-end and focus on front-end (JavaScript, HTML, CSS).
You would need to communicate with the back-end developer when storing or processing data from the server.
As mentioned before back-end development knowledge would be useful but if you have someone doing it, it's not essential for beginning.
Related
As I can't orientate freely in the topic of building dynamic sites, it is quite hard to me to google this. So I'll try to explain the problem to you.
I'm developing a simple social network. I've built a basic PHP API represented by the files like "get_profile.php", "add_post.php", etc. with the POST method that is used to pass some data. Then I try to get the data using JS AJAX (php functions return it by JSON), which means I get all the data that I need to show on a page after the page is loaded. That causes decreasing of a page loading speed and I feel like this structure is really wrong.
I hope you'll explain me how to build a proper structure or at least give me some links to read. Thanks.
Populate the HTML with the (minimum) required data on the server side and load all other necessary data on the client side using AJAX (as you already do).
In any case, I would profile your application to find the most important bottle necks. Do you parallelize AJAX requests?
Facebook, for example, doesn't populate its HTML with the actual data on the server side, but provides the rough structure, which is later filled using AJAX requests.
If I understood your architecture right, it sounds ok.
Advices
Making your architecture similar to this allows you to deliver templates for the page structure that you then populate with data from your ajax request. This makes your server faster also since it doesn't have to render the HTML also.
Be careful with the amount of requests you make though, if each client makes a lot of them you will have a problem.
Try and break your application into different major pieces and treat each one in turn. This will allow you to separate them into modules later on. This practice is also referred as micro-services architecture.
After you broke them down try and figure user interaction and patterns. This will help you design your database and model in a way in which you can easily optimise for most frequest use-cases.
The way of the pros.
You should study how facebook is doing things. They are quite open about it.
For example, the BigPipe method is the fastest I have seen for loading a page.
Also, I think you should read a bit about RESTful applications and SOA type architectures.
I know that it probably isn't, but is it possible to write/read a file on the server without server side languages. I've looked in a bunch of places and found oblique references to reading files on the server using XmlHttpRequest. I unfortunately have not found any "good" info on reading files.
I have found absolutely nothing when it comes to writing files without server side languages though. I am somewhat new to coding (4 to 5 months) and started out with HTML/JS, so I don't know any server side languages and when I look at them I get a headache trying to understand. I know AJAX interacts with the server, so I thought there must be some way to write a file on the server with AJAX.
Please tell me if I'm just being naive or if there it actually some truth behind my hypotheses. If there is a way to do so, then it would be nice to give me a link to an explanation or to give me one yourself.
I know that it probably isn't, but is it possible to write/read a file on the server without server side languages.
At a fairly abstract level: You have to have a server. That server has to be written in some language.
All regular web servers support the reading of files from file systems. Generally you specify a directory to be the root, then the local part of the URL gets mapped on to that directory and its sub-directories.
Writing is trickier. The HTTP specification includes the PUT verb, but not many servers have built in support for doing anything useful with it … and you'd almost always want to add some sort of access control before allowing anyone with access to the Internet to write files.
Expressing the logic behing the access control and where the file should be placed is something that is usually most easily handled with a programming language.
I've looked in a bunch of places and found oblique references to reading files on the server using XmlHttpRequest. I unfortunately have not found any "good" info on reading files.
XMLHttpRequest is just the standard API that browsers provide to JavaScript for making HTTP requests. It is entirely client side. You give it a URL, you get the data the server returns in a callback.
I have found absolutely nothing when it comes to writing files without server side languages though. I am somewhat new to coding (4 to 5 months) and started out with HTML/JS, so I don't know any server side languages and when I look at them I get a headache trying to understand.
JavaScript is a server side language. It isn't the easiest one to get to grips with, but it is an option. See node.js.
I'd recommend getting to grips with Python and using Django for someone new to programming.
I lean towards Perl and Catalyst for my own projects.
I know AJAX interacts with the server, so I thought there must be some way to write a file on the server with AJAX.
Ajax just means "Making an HTTP request from JavaScript without leaving the page". You can send a file, but once the request gets to the server, the server has to handle it.
The simplest method would most likely be to just use ajax to call a php script on the server. PHP is fully capable of reading/writing files on a server.
http://www.tizag.com/phpT/filewrite.php
http://www.tizag.com/ajaxTutorial/ajaxphp.php
Well let us understand the concept first.
AJAX is basically used to load the data from the server to the browser behind the scenes.
Next, If i presume that you know how to load the data asynchronously from the server to the browser behind the scenes. You might be using the POST or GET method.
Using the xmlRequestObject.send() function you can send parameters to the server file. But again just sending the data to the server is not enough. There needs to be some code on the server side to take that data and write that. For that you require a scripting language like PHP or use ASP.NET.
In my R&D, I did not find any such techniques that allow writing data to files on server without the use of server side scripting languages. If you find any..Let me know.
the same problem haunting me a month ago is still haunting me now. i know ive asked several questions regarding this on this site and i am truly sorry for that. your suggestions have all been excellent but the answer is still elusive. i now realize that this is a direct result of me not being able to phrase my question properly and for that i am sorry.
to give you guys a generalized view of things, here i go: the situation is like this, i have 2 server side scripts that i want to run.
a python program/script that continuously spouts some numbers
based on the output from that python script, a javascript script will perform some action on a webpage (e.g., change background color, display alert message, change some text)
ive studied the replies to my previous posts and have found that what i want to accomplish is more or less accomplished by json. it is my understanding that json transforms 'program-specific' variables into a format that is more 'standard or general or global'.
two different programs therefore now have the means to 'talk' with each other because they are now speaking the same 'language'.
the problem is then this, how do i actually facilitate their communication? what is the 'cellphone' between these server side scripts? do they even need one?
thank you!
If I understand what you're asking, the "cellphone" is TCP/IP. The javascript is not server-side; it runs on the client side, and alters what the client's browser displays based on json data that it downloads from the server -- data that in this case is generated by Python.
This question provides a relevant example, though it's a bit technical: JSON datetime between Python and JavaScript
Here's a very basic tutorial that explains how to create a dynamic webpage using python and javascript. It doesn't appear to use json, but it should familiarize you with the fundamentals. Once you understand what's there, using json to transport more complicated data should be fairly straightforward.
http://kooneiform.wordpress.com/2010/02/28/python-and-ajax-for-beginners-with-webpy-and-jquery/
I assume you mean: Python is on the web server, and Javascript is running in the client's web browser.
Because browsers are all different (IE6 is terrible, Chrome is great), there are a huge number of ways people found to "hack" this "cellphone" into place. These techniques are called AJAX and COMET techniques. There is no one "cellphone", but a whole bunch of them! Hopefully, you can find a library to select the right technique for the browser, and you just have to worry about the messages.
Comet is harder to do, but lets the server "push" messages to the client.
Ajax can be easier - you just periodically "pull" messages from the server.
Start with Ajax, then look at comet if you really need it. Just start by have the client (javascript) make a "GET" request, to see if the number has changed.
I don't know Javascript or json, but...
if you've ever seen an Unix-like operating system, you know about pipes. Like program1 | program2 | program3 ... Why don't you just connect Python and Javascript programs with pipes? The first one writes to stdout, and the next one reads from stdin.
This probably isn't the answer that you are looking for, and without links to your previous posts, I don't have much to go on, but nonetheless...
javascript is client side. I can interpret your question 2 different ways...
Your python script is running on your computer, and you want a script to actually alter your current browser window.
Not too sure, but writing a browser plugin may be the answer here.
Your python script is running on the server, and as a result of the script running, you want the display of your site to be changed for viewing persons.
In this case, you will could use ajax polling (or similar) on your site. Have your site be polling the server with ajax, call a server method that checks the output of the script (maybe written to a file?), and see if it has changed.
When 2 process need to communicate, they need to decide of a common/shared way to express things and a protocol to exchange those things.
In your case, since one of the processes is a browser, the protocol of choice is http. So the browser needs to do an http request or regular http request to your python process.
This python process Will need in Some way or another to be exposed via http.
There are several ways to build a web server in python. You should read this article : http://fragments.turtlemeat.com/pythonwebserver.php as a jumpstart.
Once you have this, your browser Will be able to issue HTTP GET requests to your server and your server can reply with a string.
This string can be whatever you like. Nevertheless if your answer contains structured data it can be a good start to use the XML notation or the json notation.
Json (stands for Javascript object notation) is very easy to use in javascript and this is why many people advised you to choose this notation.
I hope this will help you
Jérome wagner
Web-Applications these days make extensive use of Javascript, for example various Google Products like Gmail and Calendar.
I'm struggling to how NOT having duplicated logic server and client side.
When requesting a page or state of the application, i would prefer to send the complete UI, meaning: not just some javascript, which in turn makes a dozen ajax requests and builds the user interface.
But here lies the problem, the logic deciding what to show or not has to be written once in the server-side and once in the client-side language.
Then i was wondering if it was somehow possible to process your javascript logic server-side and send the whole to the client, who in turn can continue using the application with all the advantages of a responsive ui, but without disadvantage of the initial loading/building of the user interface due dependency of background ajax requests.
I hope the explanation of my problem is a bit clear, because i'm not the most fluent English writer. If you understand what i mean and if you can describe the problem a little better, please do... thanks!
So my question is:
Is something like this possible and or realistic?
What is your opinion on how to tackle this problem?
;-)
When we started our web app, we had the same kind of questions.
It may help you to know how we ended:
The backend (business logic, security) is totally separated from the frontend (gui)
frontend and backend communicate through JSON services exclusively
the JSON is rendered client-side with the PURE templating library
and the backend is Erlang (anything streaming JSON would be ok too, but we liked its power)
And for your question, you have to consider the browser as totally unsafe.
All the security logic must come from the backend.
Hiding or showing some parts of the screen client side is ok, but for sure the backend decides which data is sent to the browser.
Seems you describe Jaxer.You can write everything in JS. Also, there is GWT that allows to write whole thing on Java
Then i was wondering if it was somehow
possible to process your javascript
logic server-side and send the whole
to the client, who in turn can
continue using the application with
all the advantages of a responsive ui,
but without disadvantage of the
initial loading/building of the user
interface due dependency of background
ajax requests.
Maybe the apps you're looking at just use Ajax poorly.
The only content you can pre-process on the server is the content you already know the user wants. For example, in an email app, you could send them a complete view of their inbox, pre-processed on the server and fetched with a single request, as soon as they log in. But you might use AJAX to fetch a particular message once they click on it. Sending them all the messages up front would be too slow.
Used correctly, AJAX should make your pages faster, because it can request tiny updates or changes of content without reloading the whole page.
But here lies the problem, the logic
deciding what to show or not has to be
written once in the server-side and
once in the client-side language.
Not necessarily. For example, in PHP, you might write a function like displayWidgetInfo(). You could use that function to send the initial widget information at page load. If the user clicks the widget to change something, send an AJAX request to a PHP script that also uses displayWidgetInfo() to send back new results. Almost all your logic stays in that single function.
Your instincts are correct: it's bad to duplicate code, and it's bad to make too many requests for one page. But I think you can fix those problems with some refactoring.
I understand what you're saying.
But I don't think you should be having much 'logic' about what to build, on the client side. If you did want to go with a model like you're proposing (not my cup of tea, but why not), I don't see why you'd end up with much duplicated.
Where you would normally show a table or div, you would just output JavaScript, that would build the relevant components on the client side.
I would consider it just as another 'View' into your data/business logic model.
Have you go a small example of a problem you're coming up against?
I understand your question in this way:
Suppose we have an html form on web-page. There is a field for name and surname. We have to check it for validity both on client-side (with JS) and Sever-side (on php script while processing form inputs). So here is the duplication - regex check on both sides. So what is the way to prevent it and combing these logics?
Is the use of server side javascript prevalent? Why would one use it as opposed the any other server side scripting? Is there a specific use case(s) that makes it better than other server side languages?
Also, confused on how to get started experimenting with it, I'm on freeBSD, what would I need installed in order to run server side javascript?
It goes like this:
Servers are expensive, but users will give you processing time in their browsers for free. Therefore, server-side code is relatively expensive compared to client-side code on any site big enough to need to run more than one server. However, there are some things you can't leave to the client, like data validation and retrieval. You'd like to do them on the client, because it means faster response times for the users and less server infrastructure for yourself, but security and accessibility concerns mean server-side code is required.
What typically happens is you do both. You write server-side logic because you have to, but you also write the same logic in javascript in hopes of providing faster responses to the user and saving your servers a little extra work in some situations. This is especially effective for validation code; a failed validation check in a browser can save an entire http request/response pair on the server.
Since we're all (mostly) programmers here we should immediately spot the new problem. There's not only the extra work involved in developing two sets of the same logic, but also the work involved in maintaining it, the inevitable bugs resulting from platforms don't match up well, and the bugs introduced as the implementations drift apart over time.
Enter server-side javascript. The idea is you can write code once, so the same code runs on both server and client. This would appear to solve most of the issue: you get the full set of both server and client logic done all at once, there's no drifting, and no double maintenance. It's also nice when your developers only need to know one language for both server and client work.
Unfortunately, in the real world it doesn't work out so well. The problem is four-fold:
The server view of a page is still very different from the client view of a page. The server needs to be able to do things like talk directly to a database that just shouldn't be done from the browser. The browser needs to do things like manipulate a DOM that doesn't match up with the server.
You don't control the javascript engine of the client, meaning there will still be important language differences between your server code and your client code.
The database is normally a bigger bottleneck than the web server, so savings and performance benefit ends up less than expected.
While just about everyone knows a little javascript, not many developers really know and understand javascript well.
These aren't completely unassailable technical problems: you constrain the server-supported language to a sub-set of javascript that's well supported across most browsers, provide an IDE that knows this subset and the server-side extensions, make some rules about page structure to minimize DOM issues, and provide some boiler-plate javascript for inclusion on the client to make the platform a little nicer to use. The result is something like Aptana Studio/Jaxer, or more recently Node.js, which can be pretty nice.
But not perfect. In my opinion, there are just too many pitfalls and little compatibility issues to make this really shine. Ultimately, additional servers are still cheap compared to developer time, and most programmers are able to be much more productive using something other than javascript.
What I'd really like to see is partial server-side javascript. When a page is requested or a form submitted the server platform does request validation in javascript, perhaps as a plugin to the web server that's completely independent from the rest of it, but the response is built using the platform of your choice.
I think a really cool use of server-side Javascript that isn't used nearly often enough is for data validation. With it, you can write one javascript file to validate a form, check it on the client side, then check it again on the server side because we shouldn't trust anything on the client side. It lets you keep your validation rules DRY. Quite handy.
Also see:
Will server-side Javascript take off? Which implementation is most stable?
When and how do you use server side JavaScript?
Javascript is just a language. Because it is just a language, you can use it anywhere you want... in your browser, on the server, embedded in other applications, stand-alone applications, etc.
That being said, I don't know that there is a lot of new development happening with "Server-Side Javascript"
Javascript is a perfectly good language with a self / scheme prototype style base and a C style syntax. There are some problems, see Javascript the Good Parts, but in general it's a first rate language. The problem is that most javascript programmers are terrible programmers because it's very accessible to get started.
One team at google built out Rhino on Rails, which is an MVC framework like Ruby on Rails which is written in javascript and runs on Rhino a javascript interpreter for the Java VM. In this case they had a requirement to use the Java VM, but wanted to get a language which was fast (javascript is fast), supported duck typing, and was flexible.
Another example is something like CouchDB, a document oriented database which uses json as it's transport format and javascript as it's query & index language. They wanted the database to be as web native as possible.
Javascript is good at string and dom (xml) manipulation, being sandboxed, networking, extending itself, etc... Those kind of features are the thing you often do when developing web applications.
All that said, i don't actually develop server side javascript. It's not a bad idea, but definitely less common.
We use javascript on the client because it is there, not because from a list of languages it was our choice. I wouldn't choose it for any chore on the server.
You can run any language you like on the server, in fact, as many as you like.
javascript is reliable and easy to use, but it is just too labor intensive for common tasks on the server.
I have used both Javascript (NodeJS) and compiled languages (such as Java or C#.NET). There are huge discussions on the internet about which is preferable. This question is very old (2009). Since then the Javascript world has changed considerably, whereas honestly the Java world has not changed much (relatively).
There have been huge advancements in the Javascript world with Typescript, amazing frameworks (such as Next.JS), reactive programming, functional programming, GraphQL, SSR etc.
When I look at compiled code, especially Java code it all still seems to be the same old tools - Spring (maybe SpringBoot) and Jackson. .NET has advanced server side, but not to the extent of the JS world.
Sure my list there can be used with several languages, but I believe Javascript has improved the software engineering world considerably.
Server side development with Javascript, Typescript and NodeJs is engaging, fun and productive. Use it and enjoy it. Like millions are today.